[Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace Investigator) - Compat. Testing

[flameslayer93]

I’m willing to begin testing him as is. 140 seems like a safe start.

[Pumpkin_King]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I do not think that an attack die for NE is truly different than a D20 with a roll of 11 or higher. Sure, it may look different, but it's still needless ornamentation in my opinion, and the design feels better off without the "take a chance to boost your chance to get a chance to take a turn with another figure."

I was just saying to keep it in mind if we went a wound-chance route at all. We are going with guaranteed wound (and the boost was always guaranteed in any version I feel.)

[Astroking112]

I know, I just wanted to stress that it detracts from the design for the same reasons, at least in my eyes. If we do end up going down the wound-chance route later, though, I would say that an attack die at least feels better than another D20 there.

If we're fine with the guaranteed wound and Mind Jack, then I'd agree that Jydel(?) is ready to begin playtesting. I'm somewhat fond of 4L/4D over 5L/3D, but that's a minor enough preference that I'm fine with starting testing either way.

[NecroBlade]

Using attack dice instead of 11+ for 50/50 chances is different because the roll cannot be modified by Lodin or other d20 enhancers.

I do think we may need a vote on exactly what Neural Enhancement does.

Before taking a turn with [?] Jydel [?], you may place a wound marker on this card to add 2 to his Move, Range, and Attack this turn.

Before taking a turn with [?] Jydel [?], you may roll one unblockable attack die against Jydel to add 1 to his Move, Range, and Attack this turn.

Before taking a turn with [?] Jydel [?], you may add 1 to his Move, Range, and Attack this turn, then roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 7 or lower, place a wound marker on this card.

Etc, etc.

[Astroking112]

I don't think that Lodin or other D20 enhancers change the fundamental feeling of the power.

"Roll one unblockable attack die against Jydel(?)" is C3G wording, I believe. If we end up going that route, we should probably follow Eltahale's example instead and say:

Before taking a turn with Jydel, you may add X to his attack/range/move. If you do, roll 1 attack die. If a skull is rolled, place 1 wound marker on this Army Card.

[All Your Pie]

My impression is that there was a rough consensus on at least trying the version of Neural Enhancement with an automatic wound. Regardless, if we're putting things up for vote, the version I support is the one where you place a wound marker to gain a +2 attack boost and no other boosts.

[NecroBlade]

You're right, we would use the (horribly wordy) Eltahale wording if we went that route. I still may be coming around on wound chance instead of automatic, but I don't particularly like the idea of a run of good luck essentially permanently boosting his stats with no downside. What about modeling it after Stinger Drain? Very low roll is a wound, mid roll is nothing, high roll is boost?

[All Your Pie]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

You're right, we would use the (horribly wordy) Eltahale wording if we went that route. I still may be coming around on wound chance instead of automatic, but I don't particularly like the idea of a run of good luck essentially permanently boosting his stats with no downside. What about modeling it after Stinger Drain? Very low roll is a wound, mid roll is nothing, high roll is boost?

This could work in theory, but we would need to rework the base numbers slightly I feel. Taking a turn with Stingers and getting no boost is hardly a disappointment, but taking a turn with a single 3 attack hero and not getting the boost because you got unlucky is a massive waste of an OM.

[NecroBlade]

I imagine it would keep his cost down, for sure.

[Astroking112]

I'm not sure how low it would actually take his cost. He still has massive combat potential (with potentially 5 dice from range, or 6 from height) and the possibility to Mind Control another hero. Adding more chance to the mix will make him less reliable, but official HeroScape mostly priced everything similar under its best potential (Deadeye Dan, Sudema, etc.). There are some other examples like Atlaga or Braxas, but I would imagine that he still wouldn't be cheap.

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

You're right, we would use the (horribly wordy) Eltahale wording if we went that route. I still may be coming around on wound chance instead of automatic, but I don't particularly like the idea of a run of good luck essentially permanently boosting his stats with no downside. What about modeling it after Stinger Drain? Very low roll is a wound, mid roll is nothing, high roll is boost?

Stinger Drain inherently runs into the same problem. If you keep rolling well enough, you'll just keep getting the boost with no downside. If we tweak it to be more reliable to make him more worth his cost/potential (and to avoid the frustration of wasting an OM on him), then the odds of a good run get more likely, but if we tweak it too much the other way, we end up with Sudema.

[Pumpkin_King]

I say let’s test it with a auto-wound giving +2 attack.

If testing reveals that combination is too strong, we can fiddle with it. If it reveals it’s not strong enough (or if the risk doesn’t justify the reward most of the time) we can move to a wound-chance.

We can go round in circles theoryscaping all day, but I think this is something that’ll come out in PT.

[caps]

Spoiler Alert!

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

The Book of "Jace, Investigator"

Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set



Printer-Friendly PDF

VYDAR
NAME Jydel?
Species Posthuman?
Unique Hero
Class Neuromancer
Personality Tricky
SIZE HEIGHT Medium 5

LIFE 4-5?
MOVE 5 / BASIC
RANGE 4 / BASIC
ATTACK 3 / BASIC
DEFENSE 3-4? / BASIC

POINTS

NEURAL ENHANCEMENT
When attacking with [Jydel], you may place a wound marker on this army card to 2 to his attack value.

MIND JACK 13
After taking a turn with [Jydel], if he inflicted one or more wounds on a Unique Hero with his normal attack this turn, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, take temporary control of the figure he attacked and immediately take a turn with them. After the turn, control of the figure returns to the player that controlled it before the Mind Jack.

The figure used for this unit is Jace, Investigator from Arena of the Planeswalkers Shadows Over Innistrad.

Character Bio:

Spoiler Alert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9yn1DpZkHQ

-Rulings and Clarifications-
TBA

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
TBA

Synergy Benefits Offered
TBA

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
TBA

Wow this is a great OP. Key thoughts from me:
His defense should absolutely be no higher than 3. He is like a cross between cowboy and a mage, and all of those figures have 3 or less defense. I would push strongly for 2. It will make him more fragile, rein him in, and drive down his cost.
I love the auto wound for +2 attack. I definitely would not add to range or move, I wouldn't go above a +2 attack bonus, and +1 attack is not enough to be worth it.
Mind Jack is super cool also. I love it as is.