The Book of Red Lantern (Atrocitus) (II)

[IAmBatman]

Touche. That's a pretty big one.

Notably not any and all, though, but only from attacks (which is most, of course, but special powers, terrain, leaving engagement attacks, etc. get through).

So, yeah, you'll have to separate him from his allies to take him out.

[Karat]

Or bring out wounders. Alternatively it is a nice way to take out figures you don't really want to wound.

[Arkham]

Yes, but all the other Ravagers come at their own price as well. You deal 3 wounds to him and those go on Bleez, Kara, Mera, Guy, Rankorr etc. You now just put 3 wounds on a ~330 point figure, on average. So it's not like he's passing these wounds off to low point fodder. He's sharing them with near equally high point allies, so you're still doing something notable, rather than spinning your wheels. It's just allowing the leader figure to stay alive a little longer, at the expense of his army.

As Bats pointed out, that's just when dealing with attacks. It's also assuming you can keep multiple Ravagers adjacent to keep it going, most of who have a range of 1.

Lastly, you could theoretically take 1000 standard soldiers and put them up against Superman, Thor, or the Hulk...they're still getting stomped for free. So I don't think it's that unrealistic for our game to also have a similar mentality. Not all armies are equal, even if their points may be, because each figure has strengths and weaknesses, and some are natural counters. Some units and army makeups will struggle against others, regardless of point value. That's just the way it goes. That's why generally variety in your army build is a good thing.

[Lord Pyre]

I understand army building just fine. I'm just saying that taking turns with 3 heavy hitters is brutal, and that translates even harder to lower powered armies.

Deflecting wounds to the allies isn't helping the immediate threat. You still get the multiple turns, which can potentially wipe you out before those wounds on the allies could turn into anything useful.

Like I said, I like the design! I just think it could be crazy powerful

[MrNobody]

I think the Reds need something pretty powerful to pull them together, frankly.

[johnny139]

Just to confirm Blood and Rage would NOT trigger the Blood of Ysmault powers on other RLs, right? Since they're receiving wounds from a special power, not an attack?

I'm a little confused on the theme of Blood and Rage in general. Is he magically redistributing damage, using human shields, inspiring Ravagers to take a hit for him? Could use some clarification.

I think he's going to be kind of a snowball type unit where one good "stopper" is enough to slow down the whole army but I definitely see him getting oppressive if that ball starts rolling. We'll see!

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

I think the Reds need something pretty powerful to pull them together, frankly.

Absolutely. Having just played 5 games with them, they aren't exactly lighting the world on fire. They fall pretty easily, each essentially feeling like a glass cannon. A strong leader is def. gonna be important.

Originally Posted by johnny139

Just to confirm Blood and Rage would NOT trigger the Blood of Ysmault powers on other RLs, right? Since they're receiving wounds from a special power, not an attack?

I'm a little confused on the theme of Blood and Rage in general. Is he magically redistributing damage, using human shields, inspiring Ravagers to take a hit for him? Could use some clarification.

I think he's going to be kind of a snowball type unit where one good "stopper" is enough to slow down the whole army but I definitely see him getting oppressive if that ball starts rolling. We'll see!

My thought process was that it would trigger BoY powers on the Ravagers receiving the wounds. If that's not what we want, I'm ok with that too.

The theme of Blood and Rage can be up to interpretation, as I feel there's at least a couple ways to look at it. Atrocitus is throwing his nearby allies under the bus to take the hit. He's using blood magic to spread the damage. He's inspiring his rabid troops to jump in front to protect. Or all of the above?

[japes]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

Super cool! I like the restrained bonding a lot. My only concern is that he'll steamroll armies made around lower costed units, such as Vigilantes, Crime Lords, or Crime Fighters. With him being so tough, and allowing him to distribute wounds, he'll keep charging up his power tactically to maximize his markers. And if he can take multiple turns with other heavy hitters, weaker guys won't stand a chance.

But I'm fine to see how he does in testing, I'd just like to see him tested against some armies like that! Dig the design though.

Just to be on record, this was a concern I had reading as well. In theory two 200 point figures should have a chance against a 400 point figure. I know not always the case but it’s still something to strive for.

Originally Posted by johnny139

Just to confirm Blood and Rage would NOT trigger the Blood of Ysmault powers on other RLs, right? Since they're receiving wounds from a special power, not an attack?

I'm a little confused on the theme of Blood and Rage in general. Is he magically redistributing damage, using human shields, inspiring Ravagers to take a hit for him? Could use some clarification.

I think he's going to be kind of a snowball type unit where one good "stopper" is enough to slow down the whole army but I definitely see him getting oppressive if that ball starts rolling. We'll see!

One thing going for it is that the Red Lantern he’s distributing wounds to has to be adjacent. Though my preference would be for it not triggering. Just not a hard push yet.

[Arkham]

Been a couple days, seems like we're at least comfortable with testing.

I propose a vote to move to Initial Playtesting.

[Karat]

Yea

[Arkham]

Also, any thoughts on switching which mini is used for Atrocitus I vs. Atrocitus II?

The comic art + Rage Vomit make more sense for this mini to be used for Atrocitus (I):



Whereas the leadership approach fits this mini:


If not, I suppose it's not a big deal. Technically, there's 2 subtly different versions of that 2nd mini:


So we could go with that regardless.

[Lord Pyre]

Yea to testing. I have the current mini which I'll use either way so I don't care on that. I also don't really mind reusing minis in general, but that's not a popular opinion.

What are the differences on the older two minis? They look like the same figure to me.