What Properties Could Succeed In Heroscape

[Elginb]

I'm interested in comparing and contrasting the ways in which Marvel and D&D were introduced into Heroscape, and figuring out what worked and what didn't.

One difference between the two is that D&D was fully integrated with Heroscape-- Marvel's relation to preexisting Heroscape was ambiguous at best. It's also clear that many folks believed that Superheroes didn't really fit thematically with Heroscape-- there are plenty of heroes and colorfully clad characters, but they don't generally wear long underwear. D&D didn't have this problem, since there were already plenty of fantasy figures in the game (dragons, magicians, orcs, etc.). Clearly, being fully integrated with the main line, both officially and stylistically, is helpful to the success of an offshoot.

But the biggest problem with Marvel, IMO, was that there was no incentive to buy multiples-- all the heroes were unique. D&D has also had unique heroes, but it's also been flush with common squads and heroes and the class of uncommon heroes was introduced as a way to encourage multiples, as well. Technically, you could have done this with Marvel-- there are groups that could've been introduced as squads (S.H.I.E.L.D operatives), common heroes (Doombots), and uncommon heroes (Sentinels); but the appeal of Marvel (and super-heroes in general) is personality driven and that necessitates lots of unique heroes. D&D, on the other hand, is all about different species and races and classes-- unique heroes don't even need to be part of the package to get the feel for D&D .

So it seems to me that for a license or a brand to be successfully introduced to Heroscape, it has to meet the following criteria:

1) The property has to thematically and stylistically blend with the preexisting Heroscape Mash-up (Fantasy, Historical, Sci-Fi, etc.)
2) The property has to provide incentive to purchase multiples (more commons and uncommons, fewer uniques).

Based on that criteria, what properties would work with Heroscape?

Transformers
1) There are already plenty of robots in Heroscape, but there are no vehicles. If they were portrayed just as robots, they could fit the feel of Heroscape.
2) Unfortunately, Transformers are all individualized, and that would mean all unique heroes. I can't see it succeeding very well.

G.I. Joe
1) There are already soldiers, ninjas and special agents in Heroscape, so the G.I. Joe soldiers would fit in. The hardware (tanks, jets, etc.) wouldn't.
2) There are some generic groups in the G.I. Joe universe, but they're mostly bad guys (Cobra Infantry and what-not). Still, like Marvel, G.I. Joe revolves around individual personalities, and thus unique heroes, so the incentive to buy multiples would be less.

Star Wars
1) There are plenty of robots, aliens and mystics in Heroscape, so Star Wars would fit nicely.
2) Though there are key personalities in the Star Wars universe, it is also rife with generic groups (alien species, classes of soldiers, etc.). Star Wars, it seems to me, would be an ideal fit with Heroscape. Though, this is a case in which they might go through the primary unique heroes a little too quickly.

Lord of the Rings
1) It seems to me that D&D is actually based on the mythologies created by LotR, so if D&D works, LOTR should work.
2) Just like Star Wars, there are a few key personalities, but lots of generic groups. It would definitely fit (though it might be a bit redundant).

Pokemon
1) I suppose it might technically fit thematically into Heroscape (there are plenty of Monsters, and we all want to collect them), but the style of the art is really different from anything else in Heroscape-- I think it would clash with the aesthetics of the game.
2) You could certainly turn many of the characters into commons or uncommon units-- there'd be plenty of chances to buy multiples.

What do you all think?

[kolakoski]

Although this thread's issues have essentially been covered within the discussion of Marvel's viability in particular, I'll briefly reiterate my own, subjective take here.

"Suspension of disbelief" is what allows one to immerse his/herself in a novel, film, or, in our case, game. Heroscape's generic characters are what make this possible for me. Historical figures aside (eminently believable in Valhalla), the introduction of known fictional characters would blow it for me. So, in answer to your question: None.

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

"Suspension of disbelief" is what allows one to immerse his/herself in a novel, film, or, in our case, game. Heroscape's generic characters are what make this possible for me. Historical figures aside (eminently believable in Valhalla), the introduction of known fictional characters would blow it for me. So, in answer to your question: None.

Except for your Elric custom, right?

[kolakoski]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

Except for your Elric custom, right?

Annerios' custom. You got me! Somehow, fantasy figures don't bother me like other things do. There is a certain dark seriousness that I like about Heroscape. Please, no Pokemon (or Penguins with Machine Guns)!

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

There is a certain dark seriousness that I like about Heroscape. Please, no Pokemon (or Penguins with Machine Guns)!

Personally, I think you're fooling yourself if you think "dark seriousness" fully describes Heroscape. We have:

- A hero nicknamed "Mittens"
- Charlie's Angels
- Gorilla secret agents with guns
- A widespread desire for Penguins With Machine Guns
- Orcs riding dinosaurs who fight brightly-colored robots

I could go on, but you get what I'm saying. In fact, I remember a discussion back when Heroscape was transferred to WotC regarding whether or not the aesthetic of new "classic" sculpts would change from Heroscape's "all ages" look to the "dark fantasy" look prevalent in other WotC products like D&D. Most posters here back then were against changing to WotC's darker, grimmer look.

[DrAwsm]

Star Wars already has its own Minis line that (correct me if I'm wrong) is not owned by WotC. While it might be fun, I just couldn't ever see it happening.

What I would like to have figures (not lines) of would be the giant monsters from Japanese movies, but not with the same names. Imagine a little "city" made with the castle walls, and a giant lizard comes storming through attacking the generic citizens!! That might actually make for a good scenario....

[kolakoski]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

Personally, I think you're fooling yourself if you think "dark seriousness" fully describes Heroscape. We have:

- A hero nicknamed "Mittens"
- Charlie's Angels
- Gorilla secret agents with guns
- A widespread desire for Penguins With Machine Guns
- Orcs riding dinosaurs who fight brightly-colored robots

I could go on, but you get what I'm saying. In fact, I remember a discussion back when Heroscape was transferred to WotC regarding whether or not the aesthetic of new "classic" sculpts would change from Heroscape's "all ages" look to the "dark fantasy" look prevalent in other WotC products like D&D. Most posters here back then were against changing to WotC's darker, grimmer look.

"Fooling myself"? What is my enjoyment of Heroscape, but fooling myself on a grand scale? ?

[Kroc]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

"Suspension of disbelief" is what allows one to immerse his/herself in a novel, film, or, in our case, game. Heroscape's generic characters are what make this possible for me. ... the introduction of known fictional characters would blow it for me. ...

I think he's kind of got a point here. The reason D&D works so smoothly is because they can basically completely avoid the known fictional characters (Drizzt, etceteras) and still introduce D&D.

Can they do this with LOTR? No. Star Wars? Not really. Do you think they really want to try to design a Luke Skywalker? Do you think the fan base would love it?

I think you're onto something, Elginb, but I wonder if kolakoski is closer to the mark. Maybe it isn't possible to have expansions with known fictional (or historical) figures.

But then again, the tie-in would sure bring fans. And the die-hards like kolakoski can just not buy the named units.

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by Kroc

I think he's kind of got a point here. The reason D&D works so smoothly is because they can basically completely avoid the known fictional characters (Drizzt, etceteras) and still introduce D&D.

See, I think D&Dscape works so smoothly because the cards are well designed, they synergize with Valhallascape and they don't suffer from power creep. For me, enjoyment of the game has nothing to do with the name on top of the card. Also, there've been plenty of 'Scapers who've been asking about specific D&D characters like Drizz't ever since D&Dscape was announced, so apparently it wouldn't break the game for them, either.

Originally Posted by Kroc

But then again, the tie-in would sure bring fans. And the die-hards like kolakoski can just not buy the named units.

That wouldn't really work for them, since they'd still have to play against those units sometimes.

Anyway, to respond to Elginb's original post, I think all the listed properties he mentioned could be adapted to Heroscape. Except Transformers.

[chas]

"Grim Darkness" is where its at, huh? Have you played against my hordes of Killer Tomatoes yet? They are comedic and bright red!!! On the other hand, I'm doing D&D 4.0 (don't ask me why) with my custom Black Arrow, a half elven ranger who takes no prisoners with her poisoned shafts. Hooray for variety...what Scape is all about.

I've been agitating for Heroscape Steam Punk/Victorian Sci-Fi/Pulp Adventure for a long time. So here's hoping WOTC looks into getting the rights for the upcoming John Carter of Mars film! We also have new Doc Savage and The Shadow films being planned...

[CapnRedChops]

George R R Martin springs to mind, both with A Song of Ice and Fire:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...f_Ice_and_Fire

and with Wild Cards:

http://wildcards.wikia.com/wiki/Wild_Cards_Wiki

Both would be just grand.

And yes, I realise both these properties have boardgames / card games / RPGs etc, but they would do well in Heroscape...

EDIT: And Micheal Moorcock's Eternal Champion would be awesome too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Champion

I love that Elric custom.

EDIT again: Oh and Fritz Lieber's Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fafhrd_and_the_Gray_Mouser

And while this is a stretch, I admit, how about Starcraft and WOW? The charaters could be adapted.

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (the comic, not the movie):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lea...nary_Gentlemen

Although it's hard to adapt it down to a 8+ age rating...

Frank Herbert's Dune (not his son's offerings)

Phillip K Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? aka Bladerunner

Arthur Conan Doyle's The Lost World

H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulu mythos (again not for the younger crowd though)

The Fallout world, especially as created in the first two games.

Baldur's Gate II (PC Game)

Deus Ex (PC Game)

System Shock 2 (PC Game)

Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun - a bit of a stretch

Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea - also a stretch

Clive Barker's Weaveworld, the Great and Secret Show, and Nightbreed (not for the kids)

Ellen Kushner's Thomas the Rhymer (basically Irish folk myths)

Scott Sigler's The Rookie universe

Wies & Hickman's Dragonlance

Just off the top of my head...

CRC

[kolakoski]

Originally Posted by CapnRedChops

George R R Martin springs to mind, both with A Song of Ice and Fire:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...f_Ice_and_Fire

and with Wild Cards:

http://wildcards.wikia.com/wiki/Wild_Cards_Wiki

Both would be just grand.

And yes, I realise both these properties have boardgames / card games / RPGs etc, but they would do well in Heroscape...

And Micheal Moorcock's Eternal Champion would be awesome too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Champion

I love that Elric custom.

CRC

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