HoME Brainstorming Thread

[infectedsloth]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Gandalf the Grey doesn't exist in The Two Towers or Return of the King. I don't have any intentions of us making any more Merry or Pippin army cards, but we are going to make a Gandalf the White Army Card.

This sums up my thoughts. I'd rather try to avoid making 2 cards for the same character unless we have to.

Originally Posted by White Knight

Summary
Merry and Pippin rarely took out their points, but they were extremely fun to play as they followed their companions around the boards. I just can't believe they would be fun to play at all without the movement bonding--just sitting in the starting zone waiting for end-game use.

I love the movement bonding so much that I strongly recommend that playtesters run at least 1 game with the movement bonding to see what it's like.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Additionaly, WK, why don't you try the same armies you've been playing with but with the proposed change to Loyalty?

I agree with this as well; I'll try to get a quick game in with each version.

Their is no doubt in my mind that the version with the movement bonding will be more useful, but I want to see if the other version in workable. Movement bonding can't become are go to power, we need variety. Gandalf already has movement bonding, Frodo and Sam are prime candidates, in my mind better then Merry and Pippin. In addition I could see a movement power for Aragorn and Boromir. That's 7 of the 9 walkers, which is unacceptable. We have to look at the big picture and plan ahead.

[White Knight]

Originally Posted by infectedsloth

I agree with this as well; I'll try to get a quick game in with each version.

... In addition I could see a movement power for Aragorn and Boromir. That's 7 of the 9 walkers, which is unacceptable. We have to look at the big picture and plan ahead.

I'll do some games without the bonding.

I can see bonding for Frodo and Sam, but I don't see bonding for Aragorn and Boromir (other than Aragorn bonding with the ghosts from the Paths of the Dead).

[faure]

I can see bonding for Frodo and Sam, but I don't see bonding for Aragorn and Boromir (other than Aragorn bonding with the ghosts from the Paths of the Dead).

I'd tend to put a bonding type power on Sam (to keep him with Frodo), but not the other way around (Frodo's focus is on the quest, not bonding -- more likely to have some sort of Overextend power).

I would not put any bonding on either Aragorn or Boromir. I could see a Summon (Phantom Knights?) power with Aragorn rather than a bonding.

[AMIS]

Sorry folks did not get a chance to play test this weekend, I'll have to see what I can do this week.

[Smithy Winfred]

Just my two sense, I would suggest re-wording the "Unnoticed" special power. Right now, it took me two or three reads before I actually understood what it did. Try this perhaps:

Unnoticed
Merry/Pippin may never be attacked by a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack. An adjacent figure may only attack merry/pippin if that figure is not adjacent to any other enemy figures.

[White Knight]

Original version:

UNNOTICED
Opponent's figures must be adjacent to attack Pippin with a normal attack. If an opponent’s figure that is adjacent to Pippin attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack another figure, if possible. Pippin is never attacked when leaving an engagement.

I agree that it can be confusing. The first sentence, especially, needs rewording: "...must be adjacent to Pippin to attack him with a normal attack..."

That will match Sgt. Drake's Thorian Speed.

Originally Posted by Smithy Winfred

Unnoticed
Merry/Pippin may never be attacked by a non-adjacent figure with a normal attack. An adjacent figure may only attack merry/pippin if that figure is not adjacent to any other enemy figures.

Your second sentence doesn't match the original intent.

The original intent: If an enemy figure, such as Nilfheim, has the ability to attack more than once per turn, but each attack must be against a different figure, then Nilfheim would be allowed to attack both Syvarris and Pippin (since he cannot attack Syvarris twice).

Also, if only Merry and Pippin are adjacent to a goblin, that goblin may choose to attack either Merry or Pippin.

Your wording: An enemy figure, such as Nilfeim, can never attack Pippin if it is adajcent to another figure you control (Syvarris). So Nilfeim cannot attack Pippin at all with his second attack.

Also, if only Merry and Pippin are adjacent to a goblin, that goblin cannot attack either one.

Disengage
Last, you forgot about the Disengage wording at the end of their power.

Summary
So I agree with you about the wording on the first part needing correction, but the second part of your wording doesn't match the original intent. While I agree the current wording can probably be better, I don't have a better suggestion.

[caps]

Thanks for the wording suggestion. We'll have to be sure to put all our text through the wringer as we move them out of Design. (Still need to retroactively go over Gandalf's card)

[AMIS]

So I re-tested the boys with the same armies and the move enhancement bonus. Again, here’s my disclaimer, I don’t do a lot of play testing but these are two of my favorite characters from the books. It was also getting late so we only did the two.

My son used:
Cyprien
Werewolf Lord
4 x Zombies
(530/14)

I used
Merry
Pippen
SOTM Drake
2 x KOW
Tarn Vikings
Airborne Elite
(530/19)

Battle One – (Rush and burn)

Spoiler Alert!

Zombie’s came out charging like the first battle last time. I sent out Drake and Merry with order markers on Drake. They did well but eventually succumbed to the onslaught. I sent in the KOW and they had almost finished of the Zombies in a relatively long battle until Cyprien then came to life (so to speak). The KOW went down quickly and some even replenished a couple of the horde.
I dropped the AE and took out the Werewolf lord. Cyprien came back to attack but I had height and was able to finish him off.
The Viking rushed the Zombies and dropped most of them before my remaining AE finished them of.
Pippen did not move all game.

Battle 2 – (Had enough)

Spoiler Alert!

In an attempt to keep the same strategy as before the Airborne dropped immediately and took out a group of zombies before being turned themselves.
The Tarns charged and quickly became the walking dead (not as I’d hoped at all).
I then moved in Drake and Merry to try and turn the tide. The Werewolf Lord came out and bit Drake before running away (Cowardly wolf! – almost had him as well but a poor disengagement swipe). I had taken out a ton of Zombies before Drake slashed Merry to ground. I charged the wolf with Drake only to be decimated by Cyprien.
The KOW moved forward (leaving Pippen at the back having scones or something) and were slowly beat up as Cyprien and the Zombies just kept coming at them. This left roughly a squad of Zombies, a partially wounded Cyprien and a very beat up Werewolf against Pippen.
So Pippen ran! And we went to sleep.

Now I’m probably not the best play-tester out there (I’m certainly not the best player) but I hope that these results help.
To me it didn’t seem like much of a difference between the move bonded and non-movement bonded results but the way you play them is totally different.
When you only use order markers on Merry when you need to attack I found I attacked with Drake and not Merry. It’s a more fluid quick style of play (we just didn’t get a lot of time on it).
When I had to use Merry without bonding, I found I used him more but kept him beside other figures so that the others would have to be attacked first. It’s a slower more methodical game play that would probably help out the other team if their using figures that take out multiples.
So in the end I’m not sure how helpful that is…
I also found out that I don’t like playing against the Werewolf Lord.

[Smithy Winfred]

Zombies (vs) Lots of melee small and medium figures = Zombie Apocalypse

[caps]

Originally Posted by infectedsloth

I fear that this version will be to difficult to pull of.

Since we're only debating certain parts of loyalty, I would like to move them onto design soon. We can fine tune Loyalty there. Below are the versions that I would want to take into design.

NAME = MERIADOC BRANDYBUCK
GENERAL = JANDAR
PLANET = ARDA
SPECIES = HOBBIT
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = ADVENTURER
PERSONALITY = BRAVE
SIZE/HEIGHT = SMALL/3

LIFE = 4
MOVE = 4
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 30

LOYALTY
If a unique hero you control within 3 clear sight spaces of Merry is destroyed, you may move all order markers from that figure's army card to Merry's army card. Add 2 to Merry's move if he end his move adjacent to a unique hero you control.

BARROW BLADE
When Merry attacks an undead figure, add two to his attack.

UNNOTICED
Opponent's figures must be adjacent to attack Merry with a normal attack. If an opponent’s figure that is adjacent to Merry attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack another figure, if possible. Merry is never attacked when leaving an engagement.


NAME = PEREGRIN TOOK
GENERAL = JANDAR
PLANET = ARDA
SPECIES = HOBBIT
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = ADVENTURER
PERSONALITY = LOYAL
SIZE/HEIGHT = SMALL/3

LIFE = 4
MOVE = 4
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 30

LOYALTY
If a unique hero you control within 3 clear sight spaces of Pippin is destroyed, you may move all order markers from that figure's army card to Pippin's army card. Add 2 to Pippin's move if he end his move adjacent to a unique hero you control.

HAMSTRING
When Pippin attacks a large or huge figure, add two to his attack.

UNNOTICED
Opponent's figures must be adjacent to attack Pippin with a normal attack. If an opponent’s figure that is adjacent to Pippin attacks with a normal or special attack, it must attack another figure, if possible. Pippin is never attacked when leaving an engagement.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

infectedsloth, I'll admit I still feel a little conflicted about those powersets, but I'm not sure if we'll be able to do anything that satisfies all of us at once.

I'd like to hear from some more of the membership first, but I think I would vote yea to those units.

I imagine White Knight will have more to say, considering that he is actively playtesting one of the other forms of Loyalty.

[Son of Arathorn]

I like them as-is. Personally, I think they fit as members of the Fellowship (and as hobbits) well enough in that they're recognizable, but not too powerful.

[OEAO]

I think we should move Merry and Pippin to playtesting.