LC's Customs- Updated! Minotaur Stampede 01/09/19

[Dad_Scaper]

Looks great, I like the selection of powers.

I wish it was a widely available mini.

Drop the move to 5, bump the life to 8, and start playtesting him at 190.

[Lamaclown]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Looks great, I like the selection of powers.

I wish it was a widely available mini.

Believe me, that thought has crossed my mind more than once. He looks great next to... well, next to a couple of other large figures.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Drop the move to 5, bump the life to 8, and start playtesting him at 190.

Now that would be a fun beast to play.

[spiteofthedice]

I like it, but I'm just going to throw out an idea: REACH instead of SWEEPING MACE.

Personally, SWEEPING SWORD just doesn't impress me as an ability, and it makes less sense on this guy because the handle on the mace isn't sharp.

Reach would allow him to clean off perched shooters. And it would complement Indomitable by giving him something to do when he starts his turn unengaged. Hell, it might even give him a reason to break an engagement.

As a beast, if he's going to be paired up with Arrow Gruts, you'd be better off with a guy who can sprint out, hold the line, and threaten shooters on height. Reach would really enable him to do that. Finally, knocking people off cliffs would be awesome. Not that Knockback can't do that by itself, but this would be a great combo.



And did you repaint him? He looks awesome. And evil. And I want one.

~Spite

[The B.I.V.]

Interesting...and problematic. Indomitable + Sweeping Mace creates a whole new synergy that's hard to price. If he's unengaged it increases his threat range a lot. If he is engaged, he gets an enhanced Sweeping Mace...you'd hafta playtest that one a lot to get his price right.

[Lamaclown]

Originally Posted by spiteofthedice

I like it, but I'm just going to throw out an idea: REACH instead of SWEEPING MACE.

Personally, SWEEPING SWORD just doesn't impress me as an ability, and it makes less sense on this guy because the handle on the mace isn't sharp.

Reach would allow him to clean off perched shooters. And it would complement Indomitable by giving him something to do when he starts his turn unengaged. Hell, it might even give him a reason to break an engagement.

As a beast, if he's going to be paired up with Arrow Gruts, you'd be better off with a guy who can sprint out, hold the line, and threaten shooters on height. Reach would really enable him to do that. Finally, knocking people off cliffs would be awesome. Not that Knockback can't do that by itself, but this would be a great combo.



And did you repaint him? He looks awesome. And evil. And I want one.

~Spite

Originally Posted by The B.I.V.

Interesting...and problematic. Indomitable + Sweeping Mace creates a whole new synergy that's hard to price. If he's unengaged it increases his threat range a lot. If he is engaged, he gets an enhanced Sweeping Mace...you'd hafta playtest that one a lot to get his price right.

With these comments, I think I am going to drop Sweeping Mace and put Reach in there. I always thought Reach would be thematic for him. I will make the changes and then playtest him to see how he does for costing (when I get a chance to playtest him- SoV has a bit of a backlog).

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In the meantime, I have some ideas for abilities I want to hopefully get some input on.

I wanted to play around with abilities based on OM usage and destroyed figures so I came up with these. Don't pay much attention to the design of each unit overall. The real emphasis is on the ability but I wanted to see what they each looked like on a card and what type of unit they would go with.

There are 5, which is a lot. But remember, it is the abilities I am really looking for input on so don't feel you have to look at the whole design.

I wanted something that would be specifically useful against squads, By using the number of destroyed figures on a figure's card, it targets squaddies nicely. As a bonus, it also causes an opponent to lose the effectiveness of a destroyed Finn or Thorgrim.



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This one allows a limited ability to adapt your strategy to the unfolding events of a round but with an accompanying tough in-game decision.


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The idea with this one was that "time heals all wounds". The longer a unit has to "rest" the more they have a chance to heal up from any wounds. However, in order to make it a little more balanced, I wanted it to be a figure that still had to see some action as a trade off for the chance to heal.


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"X" Order Marker usage is becoming a popular ability to have. I wanted to create a figure that played off of that and would be a counter for units that used any kind of X OM ability. It does create an ability for a fourth turn, which can be a very powerful ability. However, the restrictions placed on it, I think, help keep it balanced.


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A very simple concept here. The more active a unit is in a round, the more tired it gets. I had thought about having it be a "negative" ability, as in, affected figs roll 1 less defense die for each revealed OM, but I opted for the positive ability to have the same type of mechanic going on but it also went better with the merciless theme of the ability's name. It isn't just that the figure is weaker but also that the attacking figure is all the more vicious in attacking the weak.


If you have any thoughts on these abilities, I am all ears.

[spiteofthedice]

First of all, great work. I've said it before: You are a fun designer.

Now then:

Azin Quarl: Longest. Ability. Ever. I would combine the two paragraphs. "When rolling attack or defense dice for Azin Quarl..." Great idea, though. It's exactly what I need for my Feylund Gulls. I like AQ's stats, too. Defensively solid, offensively a little weaker, but versatile. Great.

Saryssa: "Order markers that are not the X order marker" = "numbered order markers." Save space. Pollute the ocean.

Tuljakos: More coolness. You're using the X-OM mechanic in some great ways, and you're clearly aware of it, since this guy takes advantage of how many figures are using it.

First ability doesn't need to be so wordy. Everything from "To take a turn with....." onward can become "Tuljakos must be able to attack the figure with the X marker on its army card to take a turn with X MARKS THE SPOT." Its like the Kozuke's CHARGING ASSAULT in that its understood that "must be able" means they need to actually do it.

Zegryn Guard: No critique. Good design. And TRAMPLE THE WEARY is similar to the design I used for the GUIDED MISSILE on Warhead, my Gnator hero. The more they move around, the more trouble they're in.

Thanks for the new ideas. Keep up the great work.

~Spite

[Scytale]

Playing with order markers is something that has been touched on in official 'Scape, but mostly it was left as an open design space. I really like the concept here of playing with order marker usage. The idea of playing around with the destroyed figures rules is interesting as well.


Azin Quarl

Cloud of the Dead is a really interesting power built around the rarely-cared-about "place dead figures on the army card" rule. I especially appreciate that he's a beast against hordes of the same commons.

I thought about ways of combining the two paragraphs into one based off the wording of the Axegrinders' Fearless Advantage power, but it doesn't work out well. It's probably clearer as-is anyway, even if it is a lot of text.

How does this power work with the Viking Champions? Can you give yourself a +1/+1 against an opponent's hero by placing Eldgrim on it? I also assume that the Marro Gnids (C3V) do not give the bonus when placed on a unique hero, as they are not "destroyed figures".

As for the unit itself, the design is solid. It's difficult to really judge his worth because he is so dependent on your opponent's army build, but I think for the best-case scenario (horde of commons) he's incredibly good and for worse case (hero army) he's terrible. Probably about right then. Personally I would rather his class be Lich if he's undead, but that's just a personal preference.


Braga Tyr

Change of Plans is great. It's something I've seen before (I played a tournament with that as a special rule, actually), and it's worded very well here. While the trickery aspect of it is obvious, it's real usefulness is more subtle. How many times in a game do you gamble putting order marker 1 on a unit of the verge of death? Or put all your numbered markers on a unit only to have them die early? This ability is the safety net. Even if things go wrong, you can still avoid losing a turn.

As for the unit design, I really like it that Change of Plans is his only ability. It's interesting enough by itself that the unit doesn't need more. I would attest, though, that Braga doesn't have enough to be particularly valuable (especially at that price tag). Change of Plans is a pretty good power as a safety net, sure. As a surprise tactic change, it's really only beneficial if the switch-to unit gives you something you wouldn't otherwise have. Switching to a single normal attack of 4 is lackluster, and will rarely get you more than you otherwise would (except as a safety net).

A couple of ideas to make him more interesting:
1) With Disengage (or preferably Phantom Walk) he would have some potential as an assassin.
2) Some ability based on your opponent's order markers would give Braga some variability. It would allow Braga to make the most of his Change of Plans.
3) Make the unit a cheap filler unit instead. Weak stats but still useful as the safety net.

I also recommend changing his personality to Tricky. He would gain a very interesting synergy with Agent Skahen.


Saryssa

Honestly, I'm not a fan of Time to Heal. I definitely like the concept, but I don't like "order markers on this card that are not the X order marker". Perhaps this is not how this was intended, but it seems that your opponent just has to take your word for it that "yes, this order marker is a number, trust me". Of course, it will be obvious later so one can't cheat without getting caught, but the idea rubs me the wrong way.

I do appreciate the concept, though, that you are trying to force the player to take a real turn with Saryssa to allow for the healing. It certainly keeps the figure cost down.

The other problem I have with Time to Heal is that it happens every time any opponent reveals a turn. It's fine in a 2-player game, but it happens a heck of a lot in a 6-player free-for-all.

Overall I'm not sure what I think about the figure. Having to spend a turn on her really hurts. Once she's in position those turns are almost worthless. If she had range you would at least consistently get an attack out of it. But then I'm not sure how much getting in position really means... the extra move is nice, but when you're in the fray you don't normally need the speed boost anyway. And it will only happen on the front lines, since the figure needs to be wounded to get a speed boost. I'd rather spend another turn moving my unit normally than moving Saryssa to get a speed boost later.


Tuljakos

Ooo, neato. X Marks the Spot is severely limited as there are very few units that utilize the X, but he's a valuable counterdraft. I'm not especially keen on having to attack that particular figure, though. It makes the already-limited power even more limiting. I think you'd be fine without it. Then you could use the power early game to get Tuljakos into position for free, if your opponent decides that revealing his X is worth it.

Without that ability (which would be the case against most armies, and possibly even when your opponent does have a use for the X), he's an interesting figure, if a bit overpriced. Andrenaline Rush is really cool.

Unfortunately, I feel the unit design and X Marks the Spot contradict each other, as they are now. Andrenaline Rush makes Tuljakos a real order marker hog. Once you start putting order markers on him you don't want to stop til he's dead. For your opponent, that means use the X order marker freely while Tuljakos is in his starting zone (where he can't get to you and attack and therefore can't take a free turn), stop using the X when he's rampaging around, and then start using the X again when he's dead. It would be more interesting if Tuljakos really made your opponent have to think about whether or not to use the X or not.


Zegryn Guard

Trample the Weary is an interesting, useful, flavorful, straightforward ability. I don't think I could find another adjective that could make that compliment any higher, so props to you. Wait, it also hurts multiple commons, so you get my personal stamp of awesomeness.

There is a small issue, though. I think you need the bit about multiple common cards in there "(or cards if you opponent has multiple Common cards for that figure)".

As for the unit itself, I believe he is overpriced. I don't think he's as good as 120pt figures like the Fen Hydra. His attacking capability is pretty high, but his movement speed holds him back. If he bonded with something I'd go with 130, but as-is I think he's 120.

[spiteofthedice]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Braga Tyr

As for the unit design, I really like it that Change of Plans is his only ability. It's interesting enough by itself that the unit doesn't need more. I would attest, though, that Braga doesn't have enough to be particularly valuable (especially at that price tag). Change of Plans is a pretty good power as a safety net, sure. As a surprise tactic change, it's really only beneficial if the switch-to unit gives you something you wouldn't otherwise have. Switching to a single normal attack of 4 is lackluster, and will rarely get you more than you otherwise would (except as a safety net).

A couple of ideas to make him more interesting:
1) With Disengage (or preferably Phantom Walk) he would have some potential as an assassin.
2) Some ability based on your opponent's order markers would give Braga some variability. It would allow Braga to make the most of his Change of Plans.
3) Make the unit a cheap filler unit instead. Weak stats but still useful as the safety net.

I also recommend changing his personality to Tricky. He would gain a very interesting synergy with Agent Skahen.

I totally skipped Braga.

I agree with Scytale that unless your opponent is silly enough to parade in front of Braga, switching over to Braga isn't much of an opportunity for one little attack of 4. Phantom Walk would make him more interesting. I'm thinking Poison Weapons could be fun too, if you want him to be the assassin type.

I wouldn't go the cheap filler route, personally. I think he has more than enough potential as a figure that is huge and sneaky at the same time.

And change him to Tricky. Definitely. Good idea, Scytale.

~Spite

[Lamaclown]

Thanks for the great replies, guys!

The help with simplifying the text for the abilities is greatly appreciated. Once that is resolved and I go to really work on designing the actual units themselves I will definitely take everything you guys said here into account.

Also, for Braga Tyr (or whatever his name will be once I go to fully design him), I don't know why Tricky didn't cross my mind for his personality. I like to stick with official species, classes, and personalities when I can. That is definitely one of those moments.

Also, a special thank you to spite for the above post. For some time I have wanted to have posted only half or less of the total posts in this thread, and with the above post, I am now at only having half of the posts in this thread. Now I will work on having less than half of the posts in this thread. Weird goal to have I know, but a goal I had nonetheless.

[Lamaclown]

OK, my first fleshed out unit using one of my new OM based abilities.


BRAGA TYR

• I went the above suggestions and made him a Tricky Assassin.
• I went with Phantom Walk and an "additional wound" ability that is a little more potent than Poison Weapons, but there is only potential for 2 extra wounds per turn rather than 3 with the Deepwyrm Drow.
• I also reworded Change of Plans to streamline it some- hopefully I didn't mess up the clarity of it.

Any thoughts?

[spiteofthedice]

Originally Posted by Lamaclown

OK, my first fleshed out unit using one of my new OM based abilities.


BRAGA TYR

• I went the above suggestions and made him a Tricky Assassin.
• I went with Phantom Walk and an "additional wound" ability that is a little more potent than Poison Weapons, but there is only potential for 2 extra wounds per turn rather than 3 with the Deepwyrm Drow.
• I also reworded Change of Plans to streamline it some- hopefully I didn't mess up the clarity of it.

Any thoughts?

Venomous Blade is good. Pretty powerful, but only against heroes.

Personally, I think you can do away with "that you chose not to reveal" near the end of CoP, because the "numbered order marker" is already the only numbered order marker that matters when the X is revealed. So you're only ever talking about one of the numbered order markers, and it gets singled out at the moment the X is revealed on Braga Tyr. I see why you put it there, but I think the wording would be clear without it, kind of like all the powers that refer back to a "chosen figure" as the only one that has been chosen this turn. It's your call. It all fits on the card, so just use whatever you're comfortable with.

~Spite

[Lamaclown]

Updated Braga Tyr with spite's advice (and made an animated card for him just because ).

Sorry for the long load time.