The Book of The Crow

[laughing matter]

Also this post from page 25.

Originally Posted by laughing matter

I just had a quick thought on fixing The Crow, why not make it so that he can only attack figures with his Crow Marker on their card, or make The Crow only vulnerable against that figure, or both.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

At LM: So yeah, not what I was talking about at all then. I guess you're probably the first to suggest changing his 'unstoppable resilience' to a Frankenstein of unstoppable resilience and undead resilience though.

Edit- Ah, I see the problem. In my post that started this confusion, I said the '1 wound from everything' version, which I meant as 'ignore 1 wound from everything' which I left out because I was lazy and I thought it was clear what I was talking about since I was disagreeing with your disagreement with Lazy that that power was original. But I guess you could read it as 'only receive 1 wound from everything' which would cover your power which I had not noticed before. Confusion solved.

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Anyway, I support the 'unstoppable resilience' version that ignores 1 wound from anything over any of the 'magical defense' versions or the 'undead unstoppable resilience' version.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

Well, she did say more original, not completely original. Mostly sharing a power with 1 guy is pretty unequivocally more original than mostly sharing a power with 20 something guys as the 'I can't believe it's not magical defense' version would.

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Overall, I prefer the '1 wound from anything' version as well (though I'm pretty sure I was the one that suggested that, and I might have been the one to suggest it for Jason come to think of it, so I might be bias). It lets him no sell a lot of piddly 'chip damage' type things beyond just attacks, which I feel makes more thematic sense than anything else presented (including the hella broken 'lol, no attacks 4ever' original version). Yes in his universe he is 'indestructible' or what have you, but, if I had to pick someone to try and stop him from capping me, my money is on 'punches hard enough to reset reality' Superman, not an Arkham Inmate or a random Zombie.

This - he's portrayed as invulnerable, but is only shot by thugs, so this makes it more thematic to me - I have no issues with Thor being capable of smashing him. Also, if it's on Jason (which I had forgotten, I'll admit), then it makes more sense to go in that direction here, since they are actually fairly similar in both being nearly unstoppable revanant types, rather than, as Soundwarp so eloquently put it, going for 'I can't believe it's not magical defense.

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

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Set the Wrong Things Right
At the start of the game, you may place the Crow Marker on an opponent's Unique army card. When a Unique Figure destroys a Figure you control, you must place the Crow Marker on that Unique Figure's Card. Instead of attacking a Figure with the Crow Marker on its Card with a figure they control, any Player may roll the D-20. If they roll a 16 or higher, you must place the Crow Marker on this Card.

Live For Vengeance
If the Crow would receive 1 or more wounds and the Crow Marker is on a card in an opponent's army, he ignores 1 of those wounds. When the Crow attacks a Figure with the Crow marker on their card, that figure subtracts 1 from their defense.

Double Attack

That idea works for me! I actually like it! It's really thematic.

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

Theme's not perfect, but I feel it works well enough. He starts out avenging (pretty important), but since this is a version of Eric that apparently joined a super-team, he won't just abandon them or his mystic mojo because he killed the dude that personally wronged him. The crow flying off to new people can represent either him caring about avenging others, or a bad guys bragging about past kills type deal. Like:

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Joker: 'Hey Batsy, want to hear a joke before you croak?

Batman: -stoic silence-

Joker: Sure you do! You know that sad emo clown you've been hanging with lately? Besides not knowing how to dress himself, he also doesn't know I'm the one that really killed his paramour! Sad right?

*Bang*

Joker: Well ok, maybe not that sad. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Sprint Crow: Caw?! Caw Caw! (translated: Say what?! Oh my boy Eric is coming for yo' ass now Clown!)

Congratulations - you have actually finally managed to convince me to be fine with the multiple vengeances thing, since the scene you describe is actually not that far off what happens in the film's climax. Well done, sir!.

Originally Posted by laughing matter

Nope, I just checked. I was the first person to suggest it. As well as requiring him to attack the figure with the Crow Marker, which I still stand by (just trying to keep that in the front of everyone's mind). Anyway, if that's the case, then why not try what I suggested earlier.

And I'll also try to keep in everyone's mind my idea of dropping his attack but increasing the targets defence penalty against him - I feel it's more thematic (he does shoot guys in order to get to his prey, so he has that option available but has a big incentive to shoot his prey if possible), more elegant (you aren't throwing in any artificial restrictions to try to get the theme to work, and it's working off already existing parts of the design), and more fun to play (as you aren't just restricted to shooting one person, but will want to shoot that person as much as possible - it just seems more fun to give you a really nice bonus to shooting who he's meant to go after than saying 'no, you can't do that you can only do this').

[Viegon]

Man, this is a tough conversation to follow!

Trying to pull things together, would this modified version of the current version being tested work for most people?

NAME = THE CROW
SECRET IDENTITY = ERIC DRAVEN

SPECIES = UNDEAD
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = REVENANT
PERSONALITY = VENGEFUL

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 190

SET THE WRONG THINGS RIGHT
Start the game with the black Crow Marker on this card. If the Crow Marker is on this card and any other figure you control is destroyed by an opponent’s figure, you may place your Crow Marker on the attacking figure's Army Card. If a figure with your Crow Marker on its card is removed from the battlefield or your opponent loses control of that figure, place your Crow Marker on this card. If an opponent's figure would roll attack dice against a figure with your Crow Marker on its card that that opponent controls, you must instead roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, remove your Crow Marker from the game.

LIVE FOR VENGEANCE
While your Crow Marker is on another Army Card, if The Crow would receive one or more wounds, ignore one of those wounds. Any Unique figure with your Crow Marker on its Army Card rolls 2 fewer defense dice when attacked by the Crow.

DOUBLE ATTACK
When The Crow attacks, he may attack one additional time.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Viegon

Man, this is a tough conversation to follow!

Trying to pull things together, would this modified version of the current version being tested work for most people?

Make it so that he also gets to pick a target at the start of the game, and that would get a from me. I also might suggest making it so that there's a chance the Crow marker would be returned to his card rather than outright removed if you go after the crow?

[Tornado]

Getting there. I would prefer if the opponent got to roll the d20 to 'kill the crow' but not that big of a deal. I agree with L_O that a result that sends the crow marker back to the Crow's card instead of destroying it makes for a bit more variety.

Have to think it over but I believe we are on the right track here.

[TrollBrute]

I can get on board with the version that V posted, but I'm not a fan of the D20 rolling to remove the marker. It's a lot of wording on something that's not intuitive just to add a minor bit of theme.

[Tornado]

Why the 'loss of control' clause?
Would The Crow forgive someone if they were mind controlled?
I think he would still want them dead.

I like the d20 roll but I think it should be the choice of the attacker to roll the d20 or try to attack.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Why the 'loss of control' clause?
Would The Crow forgive someone if they were mind controlled?
I think he would still want them dead.

I like the d20 roll but I think it should be the choice of the attacker to roll the d20 or try to attack.

Quite correct, but he'd still not really go after them because you would then control them - either way it's a theme break (though in a 3+ free-for all he should probably be able to still go after the target if it transferred from one opponent to another).

[dok]

The "control" clause was more relevant when the Crow went away once your opponent didn't control the Crow'ed figure. In the absence of that it's less relevant.

[dok]

Is there any consensus on a version to test at this point?

I have some concerns about the d20 marker removal stuff. Are we just shooting for "Brandon Lee Crow", or does this happen in the comics too?

[Tornado]

I think the idea is the d20 roll represents shooting at the crow. Make the roll, kill the crow and disable the Crow's invulnerability.