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[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

I'm not saying that we can't enjoy C3V or SoV. I personally love it.

Me too! I just don't happen to really play it at all, because I'm so committed to C3G at this point.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

I think it is Heroscape, I think it is just as high of quality if not higher than some of the 'scape official expansions on the game.

Whether it is Heroscape or not is a semantic debate, really, and one I don't ascribe much importance to. C3G has come out and basically accepted the identity of being something different and individual from the official game. C3V and SoV are more interested in being continuations. I don't personally believe that "officialness" should be based on how much something impacts the bottom line of a company I don't even particularly like, but it's not a big deal to me one way or another, because I'm going to play what I'm going to play (largely C3G Superheroscape) regardless of what labels the community at large assigns to things.

Totally agree on the quality front.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

But it's not in stores.

Yes and no. There are certainly always new things I can buy (just ask my wallet!).

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

It's not generating revenue for a huge company to gain a profit on and then to go and use that profit on advertising, backing at conventions and expanding the game to people who had never heard of it before or otherwise wouldn't know about it.

And yet the Events section is still one of the most active areas on these boards. Somehow the lack of advertising (which didn't they have like one commercial ever?), backing at conventions, etc., doesn't stop people from getting together, playing the game, teaching it to their friends, and teaching it to their kids. That said, at a certain point a game's market gets saturated and folks lose interest, regardless of whether new things are coming out, and if nothing "official" is coming out, more folks lose interest.

I guess what I'm saying is - I don't care. I've found my little niche in this community, and I'm still plenty interested, with or without those folks, and their presence is not at all required for the game to be "alive" for me. Nor is my money going directly to WotC or Hasbro required for this. I can play the game just the same as I could before they stopped being a direct part of the experience. They're gone now, and I for one say good riddance.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

WotC is a bad company.

Arguable, but I don't really have a stake in that one.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

But the designers were not,

Definitely not. Love those guys.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

and they will continue to make quality customs just like the C3V and SoV, I doubt you can deny that Bats.

Um ... actually none of the official designers, to my knowledge, have posted any customs on this site since the days before they were working as official designers. I'm not quite sure what you're talking about here. If you're arguing that C3V and SoV do a lot of great work that adds a lot of fun to the game, you're preaching to the choir (even if I don't happen to benefit from that fun much at all myself, since I'm pretty locked into C3G).

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

I am a loyal fan of this game wherever custom or official figures take it.

Hoo-rah. And as long as there are folks like you, you can't call this game "dead" and make any sense to me.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

I'm just as anyone pumped for the next C3V release as you or what the SoV has in the works. But the game is not going to expand and has no publicity or any way of expanding unless by the 'scapers themselves.

Agreed on both fronts. Yet clearly there's something here still to be excited about.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

My only interest is for the longevity of the game in terms of a stable, strong community that we have now.

I'd argue that large sections of these boards are more active than they ever were during the official era. To me, the activity has not significantly decreased, it's simply relocated.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

That will only decline and not grow unless we can get a company to pick up 'scape and produce it again.

I guess that's probably true. I guess I'm not doing a regular head count. I'm still excited about what we're doing in the community regardless of how many folks are joining in or not and it seems like every week or two there's a new person popping in over at C3G commenting on a release or signing up to playtest. The energy is still there for me, so instead of watching for the sky to fall, I'm going to keep enjoying it.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

For a game to "live", imo, it has to have a strong dedicated community.

And this is why I wanted a definition of "live." By this definition, the game is absolutely very alive.

My definition is quite different, though. My idea of whether a game is "alive" or not is whether it still exists and is played, anywhere, by anyone. So as long as I'm still playing it, it's alive, for me. The experience beyond my own doesn't really matter that much to me, honestly, but I'm not really a group-think kinda guy. Valhallascape is kind of alive to me in that respect, as I'm still aware of it and have the ability to play it, just not the devoted time/interest. C3G is incredibly alive to me in the same regard. Your mileage (I'm sure) varies.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

To make a game such as this one available and appealing to a newcomer, it has to be advertised somewhere else than just, well honestly, this site.

So do it? I mean, if this is something important to you, go out and spread the news. I'm pretty happy with the community we have now, but if your efforts bring more folks around, no complaints about that from me.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

Edit: To summarize, I'm not saying I'm not willing to play with or think customs are bad or wrong. I play with them myself and find them very enjoyable and rather awesome.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

But the game is not going to last having a presence on only one site, no longer being produced and not widely in stores. It just isn't, I know it's pessimistic to say but I believe it's true.

Disagreed. Disagreed by my definition of "living" certainly. By yours? I'd say it's at least a heck of a lot further from death than you fear.

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

The game isn't officially alive. Hasbro and WotC is no longer producing this. Whether or not they will in the future is unknown. So, as it stands,the game is dead.

The game isn't officially "in production." Whether it's "alive" or not depends on your definition. If no one ever sold a brand new chess set again, would that game be "dead"?

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

The community on the other hand is still pretty darned alive. They are creating add-on rules, customs, terrain, and even an online application so we can game together.

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

The problem is that a community cannot make a game live. They can definitely do whatever they want to have fun with it, short of robbing a bank using spears constructed of FotA walls. But, to make a game live, somebody needs to produce it (a company). Monopoly is alive, and probably has tons of miniature communities (both online and offline) so that people can discuss trading, special rules, why the hat seems to be such a kick-butt piece, etc. Those communities won't end if Monopoly is no longer being made. Just like this one at 'Scapers.

I agree with every part of this except one word: problem. Show me where in that there's a problem. Well that, and our varied definitions of "live."

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

Flame, I am talking about the community(but also the game). The state of the game is directly correlated to the state of the community. While the game is not in production, new players are not learning about it by anyone other than the old players introducing it. It's simply math; even a dedicated community will lose participants in the game and the boards as people get burnt out. Without the new players to replace them, players leave but are never replaced by new players, thereby shrinking the community little by little. Players like Bats, Z_B and I are diehard, and we won't leave anytime soon, I get that. But without advertising, without the product physically being prominent in stores, people just simply don't know about the game to get interested in it.

When's the last time you saw a commercial for chess? If folks continue to love the game, they'll continue to share it with people they love. And if they don't, then what's the problem? Nobody's losing anything they still love.
I figure I've got a good ten years in me at least, though. If y'all want to stick around and enjoy the ride, bully for you. If not, best of luck wherever ye may go.

[flameslayer93]

I agree with every part of this except one word: problem. Show me where in that there's a problem. Well that, and our varied definitions of "live."

Well, I guess we just have different definitions of "live" then Bats. Not really a bad thing, as it keeps discussions open.

I'll submit a bit though. Problem might not be the right word for it, but it'll do for all intensive purposes. I'm not the brightest bulb and I ain't Dr. Seuss.

Edit: HS won't always hold my attention. But it sure brings me back for more when my horizons broaden, bit by bit. So, 10 or more years. Just not consecutive.

[Arrow Grut]

Bats, I did exaggerate(and get a few things wrong) a bit. I guess my main point is, it is better for the game to have a large company supporting it, in the long run to keep up our headcount. But this community will last a long time either way, I have no doubt about it. And I'm looking forward to it.

(BTW, I meant to say that the people on the site will continue making quality customs not the designers.)

BTW, I've been to one C3G tournament, and I have to say having little to no prior knowledge of the actual comic characters I throughly enjoyed it. It's not my cup of tea but you guys do good work on them.

[IAmBatman]

As long as it's fun to play, I consider it alive. And if it's not, there's no harm to moving onto something new. There really isn't. I guess I just go a bit crazy when I see the "end is nigh" type posts as if there's some necessity to take some great action to "save" a game that's only in trouble if we lose interest (and if we lose interest, it's not really a loss, because we weren't interested anyway!).

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

Bats, I did exaggerate(and get a few things wrong) a bit. I guess my main point is, it is better for the game to have a large company supporting it, in the long run to keep up our headcount. But this community will last a long time either way, I have no doubt about it. And I'm looking forward to it.

Give me quality over quantity any day.

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

(BTW, I meant to say that the people on the site will continue making quality customs not the designers.)

Agreed!

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

BTW, I've been to one C3G tournament, and I have to say having little to no prior knowledge of the actual comic characters I throughly enjoyed it. It's not my cup of tea but you guys do good work on them.

Thanks!

[Arrow Grut]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

As long as it's fun to play, I consider it alive. And if it's not, there's no harm to moving onto something new. There really isn't. I guess I just go a bit crazy when I see the "end is nigh" type posts as if there's some necessity to take some great action to "save" a game that's only in trouble if we lose interest (and if we lose interest, it's not really a loss, because we weren't interested anyway!).

I didn't really mean for that to come across as an end is nigh post, I was simply stating that having a large company repossess heroscape wasn't a bad thing. I don't know, I think at the end of the day we agree on the major points and 'scape on! Sorry for the epic derail Steff.

[IAmBatman]

Totally agree with all of that. Apologies if I came off curmudgeony at all!

Also, yes, the irony of my "quality over quantity" comment in comparison to my own post count has occurred to me.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

More interestingly is the concept of people producing their own hexes and the like. Unless Hasbro continually renews their copyright of the hexes, we at scapers could make the hexes ourselves. Again, Hasbro cannot hold onto their copyright for that to occur.

Hasbro doesn't have a copyright on the hexes. A patent, maybe. But you can't copyright a plastic hex.

~Jim, nitpickingly

[Ninja Status]

Who does have copyrights to the game now, Hasbro I'm pretty sure doesn't but Does wizards of the Coast?

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Ninja Status

Who does have copyrights to the game now, Hasbro I'm pretty sure doesn't but Does wizards of the Coast?

Wizards of the Coast is owned by Hasbro, so all licenses for the game are owned by Hasbro.

[Ninja Status]

Originally Posted by Jim

Wizards of the Coast is owned by Hasbro, so all licenses for the game are owned by Hasbro.

Ah yes so just in case if they need money they can start producing 'Scape again .

[Sir Yeshua]

I first played Heroscape October of 2011, at a friend's house. He had gotten a RotV as a present from his dad less than a year before that. If I remember correctly, Heroscape had been discontinued by the time my friend got his copy. Even if I'm wrong, Heroscape was definitely discontinued by the time I started playing.

And yet, here I am.

Just my