HeroScape is coming back!

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by My Darling Panzer

I know I am in the minority

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Are you sure you’re in the minority?

Sometimes I think it just seems that way in this community, because historically -- at least from my perspective -- bringing up valid concerns like these has often been quickly piled upon. Along with that, many or possibly most of the people I used to discuss concerns with privately back in the day aren't even around any more. Heck, I haven't been around for a few years muhself. So I think there exists, to some degree, an echo-chamber effect that tends to discourage dissent and drive off critical thinkers and critical opinions.

Or maybe it's just my own defective brain; "I'm probably in the minority" has been on auto-loop in my head for years.

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

Sometimes I think it just seems that way in this community, because historically -- at least from my perspective -- bringing up valid concerns like these has often been quickly piled upon. Along with that, many or possibly most of the people I used to discuss concerns with privately back in the day aren't even around any more. Heck, I haven't been around for a few years muhself. So I think there exists, to some degree, an echo-chamber effect that tends to discourage dissent and drive off critical thinkers and critical opinions.

Or maybe it's just my own defective brain; "I'm probably in the minority" has been on auto-loop in my head for years.

I think it is presentation not sentiment.

Pointing out the things you are not happy about puts you in opposition to those happy with the changes, those that recognize complaining can be as effective as farting to change the direction of the wind and are accepting what cannot be changed, and those that are trying to come to terms with the change and want to get past it.

I hope our pleas for historic units, tropy units and adherence to simple designs are not unheard. They did give a painted option afterall. More likely however the company will make the best choice to be the most profitable overall - either that or bowing to a powerful personality that has a vision and power to make that vision a reality. You either run your company by committee based on market trends and assumptions (mostly made up to prove a point) or a dictator like Steve Jobs runs through company the way they want.

[IAmBatman]

As an admin of this site, I want this site at least to be a safe place for critical thinking and polite criticism. I’m not endorsing ranting or trolling or anything, but fans should be able to look at what they love with a critical eye and not get drowned in a flood of toxic positivity.

[Dysole]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

As an admin of this site, I want this site at least to be a safe place for critical thinking and polite criticism. I’m not endorsing ranting or trolling or anything, but fans should be able to look at what they love with a critical eye and not get drowned in a flood of toxic positivity.

I as another admin also want this.

I have varied and complex thoughts about the new stuff. I'm buying it. There's things I would have rather done differently, but that's not the universe we're in. I've admittedly always been more of a mechanics girl than a theme one but I can definitely see why people might be feeling a bit off. I do think some of that is because of constraints that were happening at Avalon Hill and/or constraints that are now happening at Renegade.

Hell, even within the fan run customs I've been a part of for the last decade there's a lot of varying opinions as to what "fits" Heroscape and what doesn't. I hope we create as welcoming of an environment for as many people as we can. I don't want anyone who has reservations to feel like they're being silenced and I also don't want anyone who is enthusiastic to feel the same.

~Dysole, taking this revival one day at a time

[GaryLASQ]

Originally Posted by Hogg

Let me fix that for you: It's the Common Squads that will be the real test of Renegade's Intelligence, Packaging speaking.

Failure to properly proportion common to unique packs is one of the biggest things that hurt HeroScape sales the first time around. If Renegade mixes them together in a box, or makes you buy large redundant amounts of terrain to get multiple commons, it will impact sales greatly. I was willing to buy a second $40 SotM for some more stingers, I won't be buying second anything at these prices, unless it is a pack of only common units.

Based on some things said in the RGS Discord we know they are aware of the old Unique/Common ratio issues of the past. I'll go a step further and say I hope that if they put commons together in a pack, I would want to see them be similar in Points... Snipers & Minions or Vipers & Drones type pairings, not the Snipers & Vipers or Drones & Minions type pairings that we got long ago.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by GaryLASQ

I hope that if they put commons together in a pack, I would want to see them be similar in Points... Snipers & Minions or Vipers & Drones type pairings, not the Snipers & Vipers or Drones & Minions type pairings that we got long ago.

I would hope for that too. Presumably the mismatched way sold more booster packs by kinda making us buy more of the expensive squads than we really wanted, so Renegade may face the dilemma of irritating their customers or moving less product. Fun times.

Of course, if I could go back in time right now and buy "too many" Snipers and Minions at 10 bucks a booster, well then....

['Scaper94]

Originally Posted by Robotech Master

An Oni is also not traditionally a Cyclops-type creature; it would fit more in fact for it to be a Triclops.

And things like Robo-rats and Cyborg Wolves are not super recognizable common archetypes.

I think we have to take in a very measured, wide-view reassessment of what the game as whole has going on in terms of theme and design, and how it really should be open to just about anything. Just because one set like ROTV had some kind of motif going for it doesn't mean the classic game didn't change that up as it got more releases.

And always keep in mind the explanation that the old team gave us during the HasLab campaign that it was a condition of the HS revival that the game start to develop more things that were more recognizably their own IP. While there a personal reasons that someone may like the 'generic' or 'most common' interpretations of certain tropes, there ARE downsides to consider when it comes to the viability and marketing of that product.

While it's true that an Oni and robotic rats aren't necessarily a "toybox archetype," Hasbro also didn't lead their original Heroscape product line with either of those character types. They (wisely, IMO) led with characters that needed absolutely no explanation: a dragon, some samurai, some robots, an orc riding a dinosaur. The most outlandish characters were the Marro which, yes, are merely the game's take on aliens.

Now, I can't ding Hasbro/AH/Renegade for wanting a piece of the IP pie. That's just the market these days, and I do think it's well within reason for them to want to flesh out unique character/faction designs for their Heroscape Revival IP. But at the same time, I was thinking about this today, and... When we zoom out to ALL of the IP which exists right now - everything entertainment that fights for our attention 24/7, from Warhammer to Marvel to The Last of Us to you name it - there is so much IP and so much lore out there, and just so much to keep up with. (Most) Everything entertainment these days needs to be set in its own universe with its own backstory and explanation and lore-specific information, and I honestly can't help but think that, in all of the noise, touching back on the "What You See Is What You Get" simplicity of Heroscape's early days could be both refreshing and marketable.

This phenomenon (which I refer to as "franchise fatigue") is one of the reasons why Barbie and Oppenheimer were so popular last summer. Neither movie came with the heft of a lore-heavy universe. Neither required a multi-installment time commitment. They were each their own self-contained one-off thing. There's beauty and elegance in that kind of simplicity, especially these days.

Personally, I think Heroscape's true niche is right in the pocket of simplicity. I want to support the revival, but not at the expense of feeling franchise fatigue towards my favorite game.

[IAmBatman]

Ironically, generic "toybox" superheroes would've been a great fit in a new Master Set, imo.

[Tornado]

Something like Double Attack and Flying if that is not too complex for folks.

[Nukatha]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Something like Double Attack and Flying if that is not too complex for folks.

Iron Man is the one character in Marvelscape who I feel was done dirty.

[Tmac2200]

Originally Posted by Nukatha

Iron Man is the one character in Marvelscape who I feel was done dirty.

If I remember correctly, he originally had DW9K's explosion special attack. Why it was removed before release I don't know.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Tmac2200

If I remember correctly, he originally had DW9K's explosion special attack. Why it was removed before release I don't know.

My guess would be that after playtesting they wanted him to synergize better with Cap, which the double attack does, since Cap boosts his normal attacks when adjacent.