Is it time to re-tool Public Designing?

[tcglkn]

I'll abstain from the poll.

Here's why I don't want to go back to the race: sometime we have to reward an Ally or Sidekick who just isn't as prepared as the others. Once we decided that we wanted Ronan for this design, we knew there were two write up, johnny's and quozl's. The true reason johnny's won (it has a few tweaks to the powers that made it better), but quozl didn't have any stats, just 3 powers. That is hardly a write up. I prefer to reward the person who has the best design and yes, sometimes it may be the simplest. After Mad Hatter I wouldn't mind sending a simpler design through the Public Design process like Margloth's (I think) Human Torch: Jim Hammond.

One thing the public really lacks is vision in their designs, and you fight too much for little theme things. Just get your vision and roll with it. Aldin really nailed this on the head. This is even more true in the public than in the Sanctum because there are so many more voices out here. Just stick to your guns, but don't stick to them way past the point where you should.

[quozl]

Originally Posted by tcglkn

The true reason johnny's won (it has a few tweaks to the powers that made it better), but quozl didn't have any stats, just 3 powers. That is hardly a write up.

Yep, it was just meant to help Johnny's writeup. I purposefully didn't put in stats so as not to compete with him.

[Margloth]

Lots of good info coming out in this thread, methinks.

I wonder, if a Hero has the time or inclination (I know this is asking a lot), if they would be so kind as to give brief synopsis or example (or even a link to a thread) of a design process (public or private) that they felt went really well. I just find it fascinating and educational to observe you guys' processes.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Swamper

I'm wondering... If you don't like what C3G is doing, why don't you just go to your own custom thread? There, YOU are the hero and YOU make the decisions. You can make your customs are complex or as simple as you want, and do whatever character you want.

Honestly, I don't see the appeal of C3G. I'd much rather do what I want to, not what other people tell me I can do. Of course, the C3G system turns out amazing customs, but so can single custom creators.

My two cents.

I always wonder why people chime into C3G threads to say that, essentially, they don't care about C3G ... no offense, but then why are you posting here?

Originally Posted by A3n

I like the themed boosters, but I don't like trying to review every bodies top 5 to find out which one is next.

What I like to see (& this just my opinion because ultimately it is you sidekicks & allies that have to make something of it), is:

• The theme of the next booster is voted on when the last design of the previous booster is started.
• Everybody interested & eligible in the being the LD for the next design put up 1 design in the public design thread (you might also state why you think the character fits the theme if is a bit iffy).
• The public is only allowed to comment once on each design in the public design thread at the time (this would be like the sanctum's brainstorming phase).
• The designer can take any & use any feedback they want to or not to change their design until the heroes decide the next design.
• When the next design slot is open the heroes decide what is the next design based on what is in the public design thread at that time.
• Heroes provide feedback why the designs didn't get picked.
• And the process starts again. If a designer wants to put forward the same design again he can as long as it fits the theme the next slot will be for.

What this does for an individual design is allow everybody to voice their opinion on it's direction but the designer will still be responsible for what he puts forward. Then hopefully a lot of the white noise will be spared when it comes time to design.

I also think this will help the growth of all designers & you won't be stuck with a list of designs that us heroes don't want to go forward.

On a side note (now this is not an attack on you Quozl please don't take it as so, but I think yours is a perfect example), all us heroes wanted to give Quozl the chance for another LD because we believe he deserves it, however on his list of top 5 we believed only Ronin was appropriate & we found it lacking when compared to Johnny's version. But without feedback or help tweaking things I think all of you may get stuck in a rut. I think this proposal will offer the feedback without the white noise & give the excitement of competing but at the same time the opportunity to help you & others improve.



Cheers

Lots of great stuff here, A3n. I think this is definitely a possible direction. I think if this poll ends up in favor of themed boosters, this is an approach we should really think about.
If the poll goes against themed boosters (which so far it isn't) I think we should consider the approach I put up with a "waiting list."

Originally Posted by Good Pig

Was just thinking about this. One of the things you won't see in the design threads is some of the work that goes into a design before it even has a thread started. For instance I've had a few concepts that I thought were great concepts and needed some fine tuning mechanically. In these cases I've sent a PM or used skype to talk with IAmBatman and Griffin to get some advice because their having more experience with designing super heroes were able to help smooth out a few rough spots before it even gets posted. So if you have a design that you are really passionate about, but it doesn't seem to be getting any traction a PM to someone else can sometimes help you get some honest straightforward feedback that someone might be reluctant to give in the public threads. Just don't flood anyone's PM box now.

Hidicul has definitely taken advantage of this approach over the months. I know for a fact that Aldin would be willing to offer in-depth advice to any custom makers as well.

Originally Posted by tcglkn

Here's why I don't want to go back to the race: sometime we have to reward an Ally or Sidekick who just isn't as prepared as the others.

Yeah, I'm thinking there are better options than going back to the race at this point as well.

By the way - great post by Griffin - I agree completely with his big picture goals for the public section.
At the end of the day, I think the goal of everyone here is to continue producing great quality customs as a group and to keep having fun. We sanctum guys really appreciate all of the help that we get from you public guys in doing that and, in return, we want to make sure it's fun and rewarding for you as well (beyond the reward of the final product which I think we can all agree is worth the journey).

[Margloth]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I always wonder why people chime into C3G threads to say that, essentially, they don't care about C3G ... no offense, but then why are you posting here?

Yeah, I see where you're coming from Bats, but I actually think Swamper has a valid point, as he was responding to LP's frustration about not getting to do the designs he wanted to do.

The point could've been worded better, but I think what Swamper was saying was, if you're unhappy about being unselected by the process and really want to see this custom, that's what personal Custom Threads are for. I think he's missing the point of the Community Acceptance that comes from the C3G label, but there is validity in his comment.

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by Margloth

Yeah, I see where you're coming from Bats, but I actually think Swamper has a valid point, as he was responding to LP's frustration about not getting to do the designs he wanted to do.

The point could've been worded better, but I think what Swamper was saying was, if you're unhappy about being unselected by the process and really want to see this custom, that's what personal Custom Threads are for. I think he's missing the point of the Community Acceptance that comes from the C3G label, but there is validity in his comment.

Swamper has a good point, but I do love C3G. The cards are amazing. And I'm not a good customs maker, I've been trying to work on a customs project by myself, but it requires testing, and I'm bad at nailing point costs down, and people only like to test C3G stuff. So my focus is always over here, it's easier, more exposure, and still fun. I'd love to do more personal customs, but it's hard to get the community involved in just some guy's one custom thread.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

Swamper has a good point, but I do love C3G. The cards are amazing. And I'm not a good customs maker, I've been trying to work on a customs project by myself, but it requires testing, and I'm bad at nailing point costs down, and people only like to test C3G stuff. So my focus is always over here, it's easier, more exposure, and still fun. I'd love to do more personal customs, but it's hard to get the community involved in just some guy's one custom thread.

That's because if I had to choose between testing for a project that was worked on by the community as a whole or basically doing slave labor for one guy's individual customs, it's not a hard choice ... If I'm going to test any individual customs, they're probably going to be my own.
I'm not disputing Swamper's points - I do think he made some good ones. To a certain extent, a lot about C3G is "like it or leave it." But that doesn't mean we don't appreciate constructive criticism and don't try to change and adapt to keep all of our members happy as long as we can. For anyone who's been around the project for any significant amount of the last two years, it should be pretty clear that we embrace change and growth around here and that we're willing to overcome whatever obstacles are thrown our way and see them as opportunities to get stronger.
It's just a pet peeve of mine when people drop in who are not involved in the project, invested in the project, or even really have much respect for the project, and feel they need to put in their I don't care if we're not liked by everybody, but keep your bad mojo to yourself. I'm not coming into your projects and poo-pooing them. I'd ask you to have the same respect for ours.

[Swamper]

Please, do come poo poo in my custom thread. It will be better than the silence and minimal feedback I've been getting!

And yes, I agree that I could have worded my previous post a little better. what I don't understand about the complaints here is that when you join C3G, you agree to have your customs nitpicked to the very last period, to have your ideas turned down, to have to do what the heroes say. In return, you get a very well balanced custom, lot's of people taking interest in your custom, and the C3G seal of approval. A trade off, you see. You can't have have your cake and eat it too.

And Bats, believe it or not, if Marvelous Customs hadn't come along, I very well may have joined the ranks of C3G. I was looking into it, and was seriously considering playtesting and all that jazz. But then Marvelous Customs came along, and I got the chance to shape a project from the start.

-Swamper, hoping he's not stepping on any toes

[Griffin]

Not to be funny, but what the heck is Marvelous Customs???

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Marvelous Customs
Griff, you need to get out more!

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Swamper

Please, do come poo poo in my custom thread. It will be better than the silence and minimal feedback I've been getting!

And yes, I agree that I could have worded my previous post a little better. what I don't understand about the complaints here is that when you join C3G, you agree to have your customs nitpicked to the very last period, to have your ideas turned down, to have to do what the heroes say. In return, you get a very well balanced custom, lot's of people taking interest in your custom, and the C3G seal of approval. A trade off, you see. You can't have have your cake and eat it too.

And Bats, believe it or not, if Marvelous Customs hadn't come along, I very well may have joined the ranks of C3G. I was looking into it, and was seriously considering playtesting and all that jazz. But then Marvelous Customs came along, and I got the chance to shape a project from the start.

-Swamper, hoping he's not stepping on any toes

OK, when you word it like that, I completely understand and agree with you. And you're always welcome to participate in the public threads just like anyone else, fwiw.

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie

Marvelous Customs
Griff, you need to get out more!

Yeah, I just found it.

It is difficult for this site to pull me away from C3G.