Playtest Exchange

[Ixe]

PLAYTEST EXCHANGE

Welcome to the Playtest Exchange! Feel free to post your custom units and invite members to analyze and playtest them. Playtesting is a critical part of the process for any unit design and having other people playtest besides yourself can grant you new perspectives and further insight into your units.

Submissions do not need to have a card (though cards are appreciated) and can be in text form. Just make sure you provide all the information necessary to playtest your unit.

Finally, this is a place to exchange playtests. While you are not required, it is greatly appreciated to help volunteer and do a few playtests for other designers, too. Let's build a community of design together!

Marshall by William099
Playtesting Strategy by Ixe
Playtests by Ixe

Warforged Infiltrators by William099
Playtesting Strategy by Ixe
Playtests by Ixe

Ro-Par-Ga by dok
Playtesting Strategy by Ixe
Playtests by Ixe

Kobolds of Idona Keep by BOOTCAMP OF VALHALLA
Playtesting Strategy by Ixe
Playtests by Ixe

Ogre Thug by JC McMinis
Playtesting Strategy by Ixe
Playtest by Ixe

Agent Carr 2.0 by Dr. Weirdscaper
Playtesting Strategy by Ixe
Playtest by Ixe

Kyssandra, Queen of the Vipers by NWHC
Playtesting Strategy by Ixe
Platests by Ixe

Information to include in any playtest submission:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME
GENERAL
SPECIES
CLASS
PERSONALITY
SIZE/HEIGHT (INCLUDING DOUBLE OR SINGLE BASED)
UNIQUENESS AND SQUAD/HERO

LIFE/NUMBER OF FIGURES
MOVE
RANGE
ATTACK
DEFENSE
POINTS

SPECIAL POWERS

Original post.

Spoiler Alert!

Right now on this subforum there are resources available to have your custom cards made, receive help with the English wording of your customs, and even a resource to workshop your units with respect to SoV. However, there are no active resources to help you with the vital process of actually playtesting your creations.

As some of you may know, I have taken up writing playtest articles for the new Codex. You can find the Codex magazines for free download here, with my articles starting at issue 3. These articles playtest individual units while providing advice and strategies for playtesting in general.

In that vein, I invite people to feel free to use this thread to submit customs to receive a thorough playtesting by me for an article. In addition, people may bring up their customs and receive some advice on how to get started with playtesting and what to look for when performing these tests.

Lastly, it would be great if the thread could grow and others could become involved where different users could exchange their customs for testing to get an outside perspective on the matter.

In any case, feel free to begin posting units in whatever respect you'd like them to be involved. All custom creators are welcome, whether you have a readily available figures with a polished card or have little more than a typed up card.

[obfuscatedhippo]

We would welcome your feedback on the Northwest Heroscape Customs found here:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=49331


We just completed our second Wave. We have cards and Bio's posted.

[Ixe]

Is there a unit in particular that you'd like to put forward for a playtesting review article, or would you just like my impression of what to look for with playtesting some of these units? Feel free to post them here to discuss them in that respect.

If you're looking for comments in general, I'm sure I will independently visit your thread and make my way through them.

[William099]

Could you take a look at this guy for me?
I've only got to run him 3 times my self so far.

I'd also be curious of what you think of these guys.

[dok]

I'd love to get testing feedback on the new RPG custom I put out, as I haven't tested it to my satisfaction yet.

Setting that aside, here's some advice I'd give on testing:

- Test figures in armies that take best advantage of their powers. If you're not sure what that is, try a few builds.

- Make the army matchups as tight as possible - don't throw in superfluous stuff. If you think a figure can be shown off at its maximum potential in a 300 point build, then run a bunch of 300 point tests, and no more than a couple of 500 point tests (just as a sanity check).

- Test against what seems like a strong matchup, what seems like a weak matchup, and something in between.

[johnny139]

Not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but BOOTCAMPS OF VALHALLA put together a card and playtesting has stalled a bit there:



So any input you can give would be helpful for sure.

[Ixe]

Thanks to everyone for the interest in the thread. The Codex articles are a bit involved and are only published every two months. Taking on units in that respect will indeed take some time.

In the meanwhile I'd be happy to see if I can run a game or two for some of the different units here and share my impressions. I'd also encourage others to join in and see if we can get something mutual going, where you might test their unit while they run some tests for yours.

Originally Posted by dok

Setting that aside, here's some advice I'd give on testing:

- Test figures in armies that take best advantage of their powers. If you're not sure what that is, try a few builds.

- Make the army matchups as tight as possible - don't throw in superfluous stuff. If you think a figure can be shown off at its maximum potential in a 300 point build, then run a bunch of 300 point tests, and no more than a couple of 500 point tests (just as a sanity check).

- Test against what seems like a strong matchup, what seems like a weak matchup, and something in between.

Some very sound advice from dok. Definitely make sure you run some sanity tests, however, just to make sure you're on the right track. Passing your unit over to other sets of eyes can also be extremely helpful if they try some strategies that you may not have considered.

Since playtesting is an involved process, I'll at the very least be happy to share some ideas of different scenarios to try running on each of your units that can help give you some idea of how to test it.

[JC McMinis]

Here is one I would not mind help playtesting. This is my first attempt at an uncommon hero and I havent had a chance to playtest it.

[Ixe]

Originally Posted by William099

Could you take a look at this guy for me?
I've only got to run him 3 times my self so far.

Ah, I've seen Marshall running around on the Pre SoV workshop. One strategy I use when approaching a unit is to first run some theoryscape to try to map out what we know about the unit and where we should focus our testing. If you read my Codex articles, I go into how we should try to piggy back off of our understanding of other units to better help us test.

As far as the left side of his card is concerned, none of his traits are particularly relevant for receiving synergy. The right side of his card is nigh identical to Heirloom except for having one more life and costing twice as much. Heirloom stands as a good comparison point overall given that he also shares the Warforged Resolve Power. Overextend is a nice power, but if the power is used only once then Marshall will share the same survivability as Heirloom. Lacking the impressive Ranged Special Attack that Heirloom has, those points must really be coming from his Tactical Advance power. It is important to note that that power includes warforged of any type, including squads and heroes, and is even able to function on overextended turns.

As far as army construction goes, it is practically useless to run Marshall in any build that does not contain warforged. Overextend is a nice power, but knowing how Heirloom functions provides enough information to comfortably say that Marshall is clearly overpriced without using Tactical Advance. With the current roster of Warforged, the only targets for that main power would be the Warforged Soldiers, Heirloom, and Siege. Since it is impossible to get all three warforged without the Warforged Soldiers, I would say that just about every competitively relevant build must include the soldiers. If you are comfortable with your infiltrators, they are also a prime and important unit to test with.

Given his extreme cost, we can also rather comfortably predict that he will only have the opportunity to be relevant in higher cost games where it could be possible to draft him and enough warforged to keep his power relevant. I would mix it up with whether or not to include a warforged hero in the build as well or just run the squads. You should also try builds with a rounded out roster of some ranged attackers and Raelin.

As far as what armies you should face, you should try the normal suite of ranged and melee, as well as giving different formats like Heat of Battle a go (a format more friendly to melee, which these armies largely will be). Warforged Resolve is a powerful bonus that provides consistent defense, so any armies based around low attack values will likely prove a strong match up for Marshall. Meanwhile, armies based around higher attack values (like Minions) or sources of automatic damage (like Fire Storm) would likely prove a challenge for these armies.

The value of heroes like Marshall can sometimes be difficult to measure directly since he's not exactly meant to be killing his points worth but eking out an advantage through the movement that allows his side to win. You can gain a sense of it from the outcome of the overall matches and keeping track of how things play. I would recommend investigate strategies that involve Marshal taking only 1 OM a round (if relevant) and over extending as often as possible to try to maximize the movement of his side as well as other, more conservative approaches.

I'll see if I can put any of this into action myself, but it may be some time before I can get to it.

Originally Posted by William099

I'd also be curious of what you think of these guys.

Looking at the left hand side, we see that these warforged are relevant for Marshall as well receiving a significant move bonus from the Venoc Warlord and a potential melee attack bonus from Brave Arrow.

The right hand side shows us some solid range and damage. Their defense, while seemingly low, is belied by Warforged Evasion. Warforged Evasion is certainly no Stealth Dodge since whiffing on two defense dice will happen 44% of the time, but it is nevertheless a nice bonus to have that provides them with some added survivability. Phantom Walk makes them comparable to the Arrow Gruts in many ways while Long Range proficiency can provide them with a noticeable attack bonus at further range (which is relatively easy to maintain with Phantom Walk).

As far as their army composition is concerned, I would at first blush think that their point total places them to be more useful in mid to large size armies 400+, though it is important to test down as well for a sanity test. Testing them with Marshall is a possibility, but I would rather focus testing them in some different pods. Raelin is always a strong figure to consider drafting with any unit, especially a long ranged unit. Being from Vydar, they can stand to benefit from Laglor and further increase their range (and area for increased damage). The Venoc Warlord can increase their move to a whopping seven, making them a frightening prospect for a run-and-gun style unit, especially with Phantom Walk to easily shirk off engagement should it ever find them. Testing with Brave Arrow is a possibility, but it would most likely not be relevant given their power set and range. Ranged functions well with a melee screen, so I would consider the some of the different options that can slot in there, most especially the deathreavers.

For their opponents, I'd imagine that ranged killers would probably prove the biggest issue for them. Units like the Phantom Knights can possibly weather their attacks and close in to cause issues for them. The Krav Maga, especially with a Raelin boost, could also likely prove an issue for them. I would also try testing them against the likes of other melee units meant to tie them down, like deathreavers, that they otherwise may be able to shirk off and maintain their potency. You should absolutely test them in matches that you'd expect them to be stronger in, such as against melee squads, particularly slow moving melee squads or of limited number that they could gun down before they arrived and retreat along the way.

I hope this is useful to get the idea of how to go about constructing a map for going about efficient playtesting that can give you a better sense of your unit. Again, I'll take a pass as I can but I encourage you (or even others) to feel free to take stabs at it as well.

[Ixe]

I am sure dok doesn't necessarily need help thinking up competitive armies for Ro-Par-Ga, but hopefully doing exercises like this will be helpful for others reading on.

Looking at down the left hand side, the real relevance is the fact that this girl is another Marro Hivelord and is capable of lifebonding with the nagrubs. The right hand side gives some respectable stats, but not quite enough to stand on its own at that cost, even with bonding. The powers change that picture, with Bound 3 providing significant maneuverability and Double Pounce providing an interesting and versatile variant of Double Attack.

For army construction, you obviously want the core of your tests to focus around the Nagrubs. With the Nagrbus being as cheap as they are, you can definitely afford to test Ro-Par-Ga in some low point games (~300), but higher point games can allow you to draft another hivelord to work alongside. You can experiment with different support and ranged units worked in to the army builds as well. Given her impressive Double Pounce, I would also try testing her without the nagrubs as a sanity test to see how useful she stands on her own.

For the opponent armies, you can try the usual suite of competitive baddies. Lower defense opponents, particularly squads, may prove a nice match for her since the nagrubs may be offensively relevant while she may reliable kill two squads herself with each activation. Higher defense enemies may be able to more consistently weather the nagrubs and her attacks and make the fight more difficult. I'd imagine that the likes of Q9 may be particularly difficult since her attack isn't quite high enough to consistently punch through his defenses and the major can consistently gun down nagrubs and even threaten to rapidly take her out without much life bonding.

While I normally don't worry about glyphs too much with testing, I would say that it would be worth considering what happens to Ro-Par-Ga if she ever got her hands on the Disengage treasure glyph. Even without it, being able to bound in an out of combat may be a strong bonus that is worth manipulating to see how relevant it might be. Bounding her into assassination situations or just attacking aggressively would be other strategies worth looking in to.

I hope this extra lens to look at your unit and to construct a map for testing is useful. In any case, I hope that these stand as examples to others for the sort of systematic approach you can take to begin your testing.

[Ixe]

Originally Posted by johnny139

Not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but BOOTCAMPS OF VALHALLA put together a card and playtesting has stalled a bit there:



So any input you can give would be helpful for sure.

This is definitely one that has been on my radar for testing again and something that I will post there as well. I'll give them the same treatment for now, but suffice to say that they are on my short list of units to test.

This is a unit that I had actually tested before who has since undergone a change. Previously these kobolds had the VC reused Flanking from the Tomb Skeletons instead of Avenge the Master. Changes like this can be a common and even encouraged feature that comes out of testing: When a unit is not performing how you'd like it to, you are free to make changes to set it back in the right direction. These former tests, however, provide us with a nice affordance in that we can rely much on our understanding of how the unit previously played out.

In the usual fashion, looking at the left-hand side of the card, we see that Sentinel is their only truly relevant entry. Even then, Concan's bonus is a marginal one since it requires adjacency and the units do not share bonding, but it is one to still keep our eye on. On the right hand side, we can very quickly see that, without the use of their special powers, they stand as strictly worse Nagrubs who don't bond. As such, we can see that any battle that does not employ their special powers is not worth doing since we can instead rely on how the Nagrubs would fare in those scenarios (which is to say not very well without bonding). Looking at their powers, we can see that their interplay is all about their interaction with a warrior hero. This will be the exclusive focus of the testing.

For army construction, there are numerous possibilities that should be explored. From the previous wave of tests, many focused on drafting them with their Master and playing normally, using the master to go out ahead alone and then dive back, or drafting the master with a bonding squad to use first, then pull the master back and use the kobolds for the next half. In addition, there was also a powerful self-wounding strategy which is something that should still be investigated. How many of these armies should be constructed will likely revolve around who the chosen master is and what room that leaves. The kobolds likely need at least 3 or 4 squads to enjoy their full potential, which still leaves us some potentially viable builds from 300 and up.

For the enemies, you should test them against a suite of options, particularly since they may play very differently given the strategy and army construction that you're employing. In general, given their swarming nature but usually low physical stats, matches against higher defense opponents or those with multiple attacks available (especially at range) may prove a challenge for the kobolds. In contrast, I would suspect that lower defense targets or enemies with few attacks available may be able to be swarmed and overwhelmed (like Mezzodemons). Things may shift after the master falls and the kobolds are now less capable of swarming but more able to punch through higher defense and lay the wounds on.

I am not saying that they will be viable in all of these builds, but it is worth investigating. Previously, without the Avenge the Master power, they were playing with fire by trying to get enough wounds on the master while still keeping them alive, potentially reducing a significant portion of their army to non-bonding nagrubs. As such, a self-wounding strategy was dominant since it was possible to cheaply wound their master with a single turn while still keeping them in the back lines and out of harm's way. Avenge the Master is a potential game changer since it makes the kobolds have a bit of bite to their attacks should the master fall and make armies that risk that more useful. In sampling these options you can come to a better understanding of how they function, though I still believe that self-wounding may prove dominant.

Even with Avenge the Master, taking early wounds with their hero can allow you to quickly mobilize much of your army. After a few turns, it may even be the correct play to later execute their master in order to enact their higher attack after mobilizing. Still, sanity checks into these other options may prove that this method is simply not as efficient and better options may serve.

I hope this is useful, and this is one I most certainly will run some tests myself at some point, likely sooner than later.

[Dr. Weirdscaper]

Agent Carr (version 2)



Enjoy.