Custom Competition Balanced Unit Costs: Delta/Delta+

[Garenex]

From a consumer convenience standpoint, I'd prefer having the two separate lists, as neither I nor the people I commonly play with use C3V/SoV units, but we are interested in getting into Delta. Granted, I also understand the other side of it and that having to update two separate lists would be a lot more work.

That, and I was of the mind that C3V/SoV units wouldn't need to be included as they would already be priced appropriately with tournament style play in mind. But, I have not done anything with those customs, so I'm ignorant of what the prices are like compared to the Delta pricing.

[caps]

Originally Posted by Garenex

From a consumer convenience standpoint, I'd prefer having the two separate lists, as neither I nor the people I commonly play with use C3V/SoV units, but we are interested in getting into Delta. Granted, I also understand the other side of it and that having to update two separate lists would be a lot more work.

That, and I was of the mind that C3V/SoV units wouldn't need to be included as they would already be priced appropriately with tournament style play in mind. But, I have not done anything with those customs, so I'm ignorant of what the prices are like compared to the Delta pricing.

The issue is that new figures are priced based on classic points. Morgoloth makes the Wolves of Badru much better, but that will not be reflected in Delta unless you are factoring Morgoloth in.

[dok]

Also, the C3V units, while generally priced appropriately, are not all "B" units as Delta (implicitly) assumes. They range from C/C+, all the way to one figure that will probably get raised to a flat A the next time I do an update.

[Garenex]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

The issue is that new figures are priced based on classic points. Morgoloth makes the Wolves of Badru much better, but that will not be reflected in Delta unless you are factoring Morgoloth in.

Ah, that makes sense. I just checked out what Morgoloth does, and I can see how that would make some difference in pricing. This, though, would further cast my vote for two separate lists to accommodate both those who make use of C3V/SoV and those that don't (at the same time though, just providing the one list could provide encouragement for a few more people to start getting into those customs).

[Schulzy]

Ah, I'm so glad to see this move forward. I was asking about it a few months back, but I thought it was dead in the water. I'm glad to see SoV/C3V included, and I think it's the right way to go.

Expect some playtests from my group in the near future.

[Garenex]

I'll be playtesting with Delta this weekend for the first time. I'll post here our thoughts when we're finished.

[Typhon2222]

You good folks have convinced me that keeping Delta and Delta+ lists separate is a good idea.

And as always, a cheers to Shedim_Kabal, for yet again coming up with a name for whatever it is that needs naming. Delta+ seems perfect.

[The_X_Marker]

Originally Posted by Garenex

Ah, that makes sense. I just checked out what Morgoloth does, and I can see how that would make some difference in pricing. This, though, would further cast my vote for two separate lists to accommodate both those who make use of C3V/SoV and those that don't (at the same time though, just providing the one list could provide encouragement for a few more people to start getting into those customs).

I cast a vote for two separate lists. I will control the Vanilla list, while someone else can work on the customs list. Someone who has a fair idea of the custom units, hopefully.

[Typhon2222]

I'd just like to reiterate that I don't think it's going to take a lot of work to make Delta (and Delta+) 'playable'. Sure, if we were striving for some kind of impossible-to-obtain perfect balance, yeah, we'd need to fine-tune endlessly. But we know that's impossible. As long as Delta pricing feels fairer than the original prices, and encourages people to play with units previously uncompetitive, then it seems to me we're already ahead. Which is to say, Delta pricing already works pretty well as it is.

I say this not to discourage discussion about units' prices. On the contrary: that's exactly what is so much fun! I just don't want casual readers, or people interested in perhaps trying Delta for the first time, to think that it's only half-baked, or not 'tested' enough to be worth it. It's totally functional and totally worth it as it is, right now. It will just be even slightly MORE worth it, as a few prices here and there are adjusted.

If I recall correctly from the old Legacy discussion, opinion seemed to be that most of the prices for the units in the B and C range were pretty good. It was really the extremes, both top and bottom, that people felt in general could use tweaking: that some of the A+ and A units (Raelin, Stingers, Rats, 4th Mass, etc.) could go up a bit more, and some bottom-of-the-barrel (Templars, Groks, Roman Archers, etc.) could be made even cheaper.

So if anybody is wondering where to start thinking about tweaking, I'd suggest focusing on top and bottom. Just my .

[chas]

An interesting question about keeping two lists would be that some units could be priced differently themselves, depending on whether or not you use the customs. For example, the new Soulborg Deathwalker leader just announced (Deathcommander Mark 3) could boost the value of older Deathwalkers! Would you then have a revised price on the old ones noted on the new list?

[Shedim Kabal]

Originally Posted by chas

An interesting question about keeping two lists would be that some units could be priced differently themselves, depending on whether or not you use the customs. For example, the new Soulborg Deathwalker leader just announced could boost the value of older Deathwalkers! Would you then have a revised price on the old ones noted on the new list?

Yes. dok already revised up the price of 9K and 8K and 7K in Delta+ to reflect their better abilities under that system. The systems would be expected to diverge as many C3V and SoV units are specifically designed to boost underserved units.

[ThorfinSS]

I like the idea of separate lists because at this juncture in time I am too cheap (-gasp-) and don't have the time too get into customs.

Also I really like Typhon2222's point that Delta isn't about getting somewhere, it's the journey! It'll be fun to watch little used units re-priced until they suddenly become all-stars for a season. I'm excited to see a few new "broken" strategies evolve and then get nerfed down.