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Heroscape: Legacy
Heroscape: Legacy Heroscape: Legacy is an alternative unit cost system for Heroscape. This system is designed so you can play with the official figures the way they were written, but with an alternative cost system so all units are equally competitive. When you play with Heroscape: Legacy, use all of the normal rules of Heroscape, except use Legacy Points instead of the printed point value on the card. Like the original Heroscape point system, Heroscape: Legacy is optimized for games between 400 and 600 points, but you are welcome to play with any army size you want. Who is it for? This is for fans of Heroscape that want to have fun with all of their units, not just the units considered 'good.' You'll notice the best units have gone up in price, and some of the least used units have gone down in price. Whether you just play for fun, or want to spice up your next tournament Heroscape: Legacy will redefine what it means to have a well put together army. This is the Winter 2010 publication of Heroscape: Legacy. Even though new official figures are no longer being produced, these point values may change after months of playtests and feedback. The goal is always to produce the most balanced costs possible. The next Heroscape: Legacy publication is planned for Spring 2011 and relies on your feedback. Here are all the units, sorted by Legacy cost:
Spoiler Alert!
Now that you know what it is, get this pdf! The pdf is sorted by name of unit for reference, and has a summary of how to use Heroscape: Legacy. HeroscapeLegacy.pdf Addendum: Samuel Brown was released after Heroscape: Legacy! Play him at 60 Legacy points, which is his printed value. Once you've got the pdf, if you want something a little more flexible to help you build your army check out the spreadsheet. You should be able to sort the spreadsheet by Legacy point value, printed point value, cost difference, name or even a stat like range or defense: HeroscapeLegacy.xls (For Microsoft Excel) HeroscapeLegacy.numbers (For Apple iWork users) To use the spreadsheets well you should probably sort them by column. I find sorting by 'Legacy Points' to be the most useful when designing an army. Kolakoski started a thread about competitive Legacy armies. Check it out and add your army ideas! Heroscape - Legacy Competitive Armies Have fun! If you have feedback on unit costs, you should post to this thread. Good feedback should include why unit A's Legacy cost is too high or too low. If you think you would never draft them because unit B is always better, that's great feedback. This feedback is super helpful for the Spring revision, so get in some games over the holidays and post it to here! Changes: 12-1-10: Added spoiler to show all units sorted by Legacy cost. Posted addendum regarding Samuel Brown. Expanded on some text. 12-17-10: removed extra "" around Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan 02-06-11: added a link to the competitive Legacy armies thread. Last edited by CornPuff; February 8th, 2011 at 07:45 PM. Reason: added a link to the competitive Legacy armies thread. |
#2
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Re: Heroscape: Legacy
I think these point values look like I great addition. I can't wait to try these out.
This also reminds me of the work going on over at the Competitive Unit Congress. While definitely distinct, it seems to be in the same vein as your Heroscape: Legacy. You should go check it out! Last edited by Paronychodon; November 16th, 2010 at 10:26 PM. |
#3
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Re: Heroscape: Legacy
Wow, Cornpuff this looks good.
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#4
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Re: Heroscape: Legacy
Looking forward to trying this out. Sounds like a great concept--I'm definitely among the Scapers that feels that 95% of all balance issues come down to tinkering with the point values to match the metagame. This seems like a smart way to adjust units to match with the current metagame.
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#5
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Re: Heroscape: Legacy
dok has been continually working on something like this. Not sure he has a thread for it, but here are a list of values I found, not sure how recent they are either.... maybe you could compare.
Code:
85 10th Regiment of Foot 90 4th Mass. Line 255 Abomination 80 Acolarh 85 Agent Carr 140 Agent Skahen 25 Air Elemental 125 Airborne Elite 125 Alastair MacDirk 100 Ana Karithon 70 Anubian Wolves 50 Arkmer 50 Armoc Vipers 45 Arrow Gruts 55 Ashigaru Harquebus 40 Ashigaru Yari 115 Atlaga 75 Aubrien Archers 30 Blade Gruts 70 Blastatrons 60 Brandis Skyhunter 55 Brave Arrow 235 Braxas 110 Brunak 260 Captain America 75 Capuan Gladiators 65 Chardris 180 Charos 70 Concan the Kyrie Warrior 90 Crixus 185 Cyprien Esenwein 55 Darrak Ambershard 35 Deadeye Dan 60 Deathreavers 70 Deathstalkers 50 Deathwalker 7000 100 Deathwalker 8000 105 Deathwalker 9000 70 Deepwyrm Drow 170 Dr. Doom 25 Drow Chainfighter 20 Dumutef Guard 80 Dünd 45 Dzu-Teh 25 Earth Elemental 30 Eldgrim the Viking Champion 65 Elite Onyx Vipers 60 Emirroon 55 Empress Kiova 55 Erevan Sunshadow 75 Estivara 135 Fen Hydra 70 Feral Troll 80 Finn the Viking Champion 30 Fire Elemental 35 Fyorlag Spiders 90 Gladiatrons 70 Gorillinators 100 Granite Guardians 90 Greater Ice Elemental 70 Greenscale Warriors 135 Grimnak 100 Grok Riders 35 Guilty McCreech 70 Gurei-Oni 60 Hatamoto Taro 80 Heavy Gruts 365 Incredible Hulk 220 Iron Man 30 Isamu 45 Iskra Esenwein 70 Izumi Samurai 75 James Murphy 60 Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan 75 Jorhdawn 180 Jotun 135 Kaemon Awa 185 Kato Katsuro 105 Kee-Mo-Shi 60 Kelda the Kyrie Warrior 60 Khosumet the Darklord 80 Knights of Weston 90 Kozuke Samurai 135 Krav Maga Agents 115 Krug 55 Kumiko 20 Kyntela Gwyn 130 Laglor 75 MacDirk Warriors 155 Major Q10 210 Major Q9 50 Major X17 25 Marcu Esenwein 105 Marcus Decimus Gallus 70 Marrden Hounds 40 Marrden Nagrubs 55 Marro Dividers 50 Marro Drones 25 Marro Drudge 160 Marro Hive 80 Marro Stingers 60 Marro Warriors 125 Master Win Chiu Woo 55 Me-Burq-Sa 85 Microcorp Agents 115 Migol Ironwill 115 Mimring 125 Minions of Utgar 135 Mogrimm Forgehammer 75 Mohican River Tribe 70 Moriko 85 Morsbane 125 Nakita Agents 90 Ne-Gok-Sa 65 Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider 205 Nilfheim 90 Ninjas of the Northern Wind 60 Obsidian Guards 30 Omnicron Repulsors 100 Omnicron Snipers 90 Ornak 120 Othkurik the Black Dragon 20 Otonashi 60 Parmenio 80 Pelloth 85 Phantom Knights 110 Protectors of Ullar 80 Quasatch Hunters 135 Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-ROTV 115 Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-SOTM 45 Rechets of Bogdan 135 Red Skull 70 Retiarius 45 Roman Archers 55 Roman Legionnaires 70 Runa 45 Sacred Band 20 Sahuagin Raider 60 Saylind the Kyrie Warrior 100 Sentinels of Jandar 115 Sgt. Drake Alexander-ROTV 180 Sgt. Drake Alexander-SOTM 75 Shades of Bleakewoode 60 Shaolin Monks 105 Sharwin Wildborn 30 Shiori 355 Silver Surfer 75 Sir Denrick 105 Sir Dupuis 125 Sir Gilbert 75 Sir Hawthorne 130 Sonlen 50 Sonya Esenwein 210 Spartacus 135 Spider-Man 150 Su-Bak-Na 95 Sudema 160 Sujoah 20 Swog Rider 100 Syvarris 165 Taelord the Kyrie Warrior 115 Tagawa Samurai 70 Tagawa Samurai Archers 95 Tandros Kreel 45 Tarn Viking Warriors 70 Templar Cavalry 330 Thanos 80 The Axegrinders of Burning Forge 105 The Einar Imperium 45 Theracus 60 Thorgrim the Viking Champion 230 Tor-Kul-Na 100 Torin 85 Tornak 110 Tul-Bak-Ra 120 Ulginesh 90 Valguard 45 Venoc Vipers 125 Venoc Warlord 155 Venom 65 Warden 816 50 Warriors of Ashra 30 Water Elemental 100 Wo-Sa-Ga 80 Wolves of Badru 100 Wyvern 205 Zelrig 60 Zetacron 60 Zettian Guards 60 Zombies of Morindan Heroes of 'Scape- Heroscape meets RPG! Heroes of 'Scape Battle Summaries Let me help you play with yourself? |
#7
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Re: Heroscape: Legacy
Quote:
It is interesting to compare the differences. There are many cases where the prices end up identical (10th Regiment, Zelrig, and TKN, to name three), but the auction results definitely produced some real outliers. I think it would be interesting to do a full side-by-side comparison. The issue with the auction trial is that, unless you get a huge number of bidders, you won't get a clear picture of how all figures are valued against one another. Also, an auction will naturally inflate the value of filler figures and figures that provide generic bonuses to many armies. |
#8
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Re: Heroscape: Legacy
Wow, that's pretty cool. I hadn't seen the auction-based draft trial before.
Quote:
As a rule of thumb, the B units stayed right where they were and the further a unit was from B the more their cost changed. The goal is to create interesting decisions while creating an army, and to make as many figures viable as possible. I didn't want to create an inversion where Q9 is undraftable, I just want there to be be a lot of options. Perhaps most of all, I want to see someone fielding all 3 deathwalkers in a non-ironic fashion I also didn't want to change what it means to have a 500 point army. The average cost per card in Heroscape is 100.7, in Heroscape: Legacy the average cost per card is 98. For comparison, in dok's auction the average turned out to be 93. I think these numbers are a good start. The next step is feedback. |
#9
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Re: Heroscape: Legacy
Do those averages include marvelscape?
Why are there so many odd number values? What was the formula you used? Did you realize that not all units are meant to be A+? Or, it sounds like you're trying to make them all an average C. Oops, I almost forgot... Do you enjoy spitting in the eyes of the design team by disregarding their work? You do realize that they didn't try to make all units the best unit. |
#10
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Re: Heroscape: Legacy
Kaemon Awa 123, you should note that "Heroscape: Legacy is an alternative unit cost system for Heroscape"
If you don't want to use this alternative system, then I suggest you keep playing the 'scape the way you currently do. |
#11
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Re: Heroscape: Legacy
Well, you've got to consider that no matter what he costs, DW7000 always has potential to swing the game vastly in you favor. The reason why he isn't picked that much is that there is more consistent options, while not better ones when DW reaches his full potential. However, at 65 points, he can be fit into more 500 point builds, therefore making him overpowered. I don't want to see games decided by who rolls better with DW7000.
Anyway, I'll back out of this discussion because no matter what you do, I'll always disagree with this sort of thing. Besides, I'm in a bad mood due to vast amounts of homework... plus this is the sort of thing that results in neg-rep and I don't feel like getting that... |
#12
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Re: Heroscape: Legacy
Quote:
The power rankings already exist for this purpose. Here is a link to the thread from September. Sorry if this sounds snarky - which I guess it is... But I'm a little miffed by the fact that this thread has received so much attention while the one I created two months ago received very little feedback. I think it would be beneficial for CornPuff and I to combine our efforts, and welcome the opportunity to do so if he is receptive to it. |
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