An opposing viewpoint...

[Mombo101]

The following comments I'm about to make aren't going to be popular, and might anger some. All I ask before you comment is to please consider my viewpoints...

It came as an utter shock to me to see that Heroscape has been canceled. It also came as a shock, because I have met a number of great people playing this game, and I have met a number of these people playing this game at National Heroscape Days, various tournaments, and heck, just at peoples houses. So, the idea that there will be no more new releases, no more waves to speculate about, or to toy with in play testing before they are released, quite utterly, sucks.

Like many, I have thought about the ideas to keep Heroscape alive, keep it active, keep it going. I toyed with the idea of making custom home figures to play with my friends, or to test out our own cards with already released figures. I toyed with the idea in my head that maybe new cards for old figures would do the trick in the long run, but in the end I kept coming to one conclusion, it won't keep the game going.

I have played a number of games which have gone under, everything from HeroClix, to the WoW card game, to Netrunner, to Star Wars CCG, to the Lord of the Rings CCG, and everything in between. When the game is canceled the immediate knee jerk reaction is to do something which keeps the game alive, but it only prolongs the inevitable. In the end, no matter how much people tried to keep these games current, whether through custom cards, or whatnot, ultimately the game still died, just slower and more prolonged. And honestly, the prolonged death ruins the game for many people, it ruined many games for me.

Now, I'm not trying to sound like a naysayer, and I'm definitely not trying to insult the creators of this game. What I'm saying is, is that we need to be realistic. It's all well and good to want to make customs, but it won't get new players interested. With a game like Heroscape, unlike card games, is that there needs to be easily and readily available product to purchase. Nine times out of ten, you will not convince a new player to play and start collecting if they need to hunt through a slew of locations to find pieces, nor go on a myraid of websites to get the "custom" pieces everyone's clamoring to purchase. These players are just going to shrug their shoulders and move on, and in the long run this is going to cause people to slowly leave the game and the trickle effect as a result will cause this prolonged death.

To make a long story short, when the next wave is released it means that it is the last wave. Rather than try and prolong the tortuous realization that the design team will not be releasing any further product, let's enjoy it for what it is, what we have, and what we can do with what is already in existence in the future. Let's not try to ruin a good thing by prolonging the inevitable...

[TurtleKing99]

Well you're a real optimist.

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by Mombo101

I have played a number of games which have gone under, everything from HeroClix, to the WoW card game, to Netrunner, to Star Wars CCG, to the Lord of the Rings CCG, and everything in between. When the game is canceled the immediate knee jerk reaction is to do something which keeps the game alive, but it only prolongs the inevitable. In the end, no matter how much people tried to keep these games current, whether through custom cards, or whatnot, ultimately the game still died, just slower and more prolonged.

Well, I guess it all depends on what you mean by "dead." I'm sure there are still people who play all those games listed above. (By the way, Heroclix still puts out new releases.)

Will Heroscape's fanbase grow without new official product? You're right, it's unlikely that new fans will jump onto a cancelled game. Can the existing fans and community we already have maintain interest in the game through various means (whether it be new customs, maps, scenarios, tweaks of old units, etc...)? Absolutely. Can we fight an uphill battle to spread the love of this game by hosting public events and/or sharing it with our friends and loved ones? Absolutely. Could our outreach result in the eventual resurrection of the game by WotC or some other company? Absolutely.

Dying is easy. Living is hard.

[Frylock]

In some ways I agree. I don't think Heroscape needs countless future figures; at some point enough is enough (at least for me). However, it would have been nice if some of the more gaping holes had been filled before the end, just so the completionist in me could relax. A few flagbearers would be nice...and an Elf Wizard. Pretty much what everyone else wants.

[Oliver Upshaw]

Originally Posted by Frylock

In some ways I agree. I don't think Heroscape needs countless future figures; at some point enough is enough (at least for me). However, it would have been nice if some of the more gaping holes had been filled before the end, just so the completionist in me could relax. A few flagbearers would be nice...and an Elf Wizard. Pretty much what everyone else wants.

I agree that at some point the game is going to die and there are only so many ways to design figs and make them interesting, but right now is not the time to kill the game. We really need a reprint or two of some of the Waves so that there will be more stuff out there for people who get into it later to find and the terrain sets need to be reprinted. Large holes in some of the armies need to be filled. Vydar has been with us since the ROTV yet he is still missing a common flying squad, while Utgar has three of them. That is one of my real complaints about D3 it does not feel like it is addding anything new to the game. D1 and D2 added the Wyrmlings, the Elementals, the Greenscales and several ways to move your enemies units. I am just not seeing these kind of gaming changeing units in D3 nor am I seeing units that fill known holes in the game. I feel that the design team was let down by WOTC in not keeping them informed of the likely hood that this might be the last wave. If they had known that they might have been able to at least plug a few holes, instead of opening a new door with Vakrill.

[dok]

I agree with you that making a bunch of new customs isn't going to grow the game, or even slow its decline, really. That doesn't mean it can't be done for its own sake, though.

[Grungebob]

To the OP. Yes everything comes to an end, but there are a few hundred maybe even thousand players who are not ready for that. The next phase that we enter is devoted to those loyal fans. What you have done is kind of like looking at a sick person who has just received some grave news, and telling them to give up.

Please understand that there really isn't anything to lose and no harm from honoring our game with some fan driven attention. In fact, I would say that this is the era of the Heroscape fans. this is their time to shine. This is their time to assume ownership of this game. We are the ones left with these massive collections. We are the ones who know how tall Jotun is or how many dice Guilty McCreech tosses. Its our freakin game!

[Isamu]

OP does have a point.

There's nothing wrong with having an era of the Heroscape fans, but it's good to have realistic expectations about how that will differ from the Hasbro, and WotC era.

I'm still hoping against hope that the HS system will be sold or licensed to a new company with the talent, vision, and business savvy to produce a successful new HS product.

[chas]

...and with the new announcement of negotiations behind the scenes for the possible resale or licensing of Scape or parts of it to another company, the discussion is now suspended for the time being.

But of course an individual is free to participate or not in Fan Scape, which has always been true. I know people who only play "Official," and other players who say they only play some form of Customscape...

[Good Pig]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

Well, I guess it all depends on what you mean by "dead." I'm sure there are still people who play all those games listed above. (By the way, Heroclix still puts out new releases.)

Will Heroscape's fanbase grow without new official product? You're right, it's unlikely that new fans will jump onto a cancelled game. Can the existing fans and community we already have maintain interest in the game through various means (whether it be new customs, maps, scenarios, tweaks of old units, etc...)? Absolutely. Can we fight an uphill battle to spread the love of this game by hosting public events and/or sharing it with our friends and loved ones? Absolutely. Could our outreach result in the eventual resurrection of the game by WotC or some other company? Absolutely.

Dying is easy. Living is hard.

Great post!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sherman Davies again.

[Granite-M]

I don't think anyone has any illusions about the Fan 'Scape era being exactly the same as Official 'Scape. Will it be more difficult? Yes. Will we get as many new recruits? No. But that doesn't mean that we can't continue to have a fantastic game, and potentially even improve on it. Hasbro, WotC, and above all the designers left us an excellent foundation. We now have the ability to build upon that.

And not only that, but since when does a game always need new expansions to still be a good game? You heard about any good expansions for Chess, lately? Or Monopoly? Or Capture the Flag? The 'Scape that we have already is such a diverse and well-formed game, that we could reasonably continue to play with nothing but what we already have, and still have a fantastic game that would last us for as long as we still have the strength to drop dice on a table.

[GreyOwl]

I just don't get the "let's quit" attitude. I mean, when you were buying all the waves and master sets, were you thinking, "I'm going to buy all this stuff, but as soon as they stop making more, I'm going to dump it and stop playing." ???