The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Son of Arathorn]

What's the mini used?

D&D War Drums Warforged Bodyguard.

Sentinel is a solid design. A few issues to consider.

The design lacks a cohesive vision. Is he a commander? Just a rank-and-file soldier? A bodyguard? The combination of Soldier, Loyal, and Combat Leader tend to pull it in different directions. This isn't a major issue, but a change to the class and/or personality could go a long way to bringing the theme together.

Closer to commander than soldier, I'd say. Suppose I changed Soldier to Leader and to Loyal to Disciplined?

"Sentinel" is a cool name, but not one that can be used. The problem is that there is already a class called Sentinel, and even a power that plays off that class, Knight and Sentinel Enhancement. It is not clear if that power is supposed to apply to this figure named Sentinel or not. I'm afraid the name will have to change.

Couple that issue with a design shift towards leader, and I'd say you're right. Could focus on his SA, or on his leadership capabilities (small though they may be). If focusing on the SA, perhaps Hammer/Hammerfell? If focusing on his leadership, Chief, Forefront, Spearhead, Vanguard?

Well SoA... it looks okay. Not sure there's anything wrong with it. It doesn't leap out at me in any great way, though. I do like Combat Leader as a subtle boost for the Warforged, but he doesn't seem to bring them anything new to the table. Heirloom already provides an Area Effect SA, and his is more powerful. I don't understand what Sentinel does that Siege/Heirloom don't already do--aside from the subtle initiative boost, of course.

Since I'd prefer moving towards leader rather than soldier, perhaps enhance his leadership in the most obvious way to differ him from the other Warforged heroes; give him Warforged Leadership. Considering that possibility brings up an interesting point of whether to replace Combat Leader with it, or to eliminate his SA in favor of Leadership.

Suppose the following changes to the design:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = VANGUARD
GENERAL = VYDAR
PLANET = EBERRON
SPECIES = WARFORGED
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = LEADER
PERSONALITY = DISCIPLINED
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 2
POINTS = 110/???

COMBAT LEADER
If at least one order marker is on Vanguard, you may add 3 to your initiative roll.

WARFORGED LEADERSHIP
All Warforged you control, except Vanguard, move one additional space.

WARFORGED RESOLVE
When Vanguard rolls defense dice against a normal or special attack, add 1 automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

Conversely, I could move him closer to Soldier than Leader with these changes:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = CHARGER/???
GENERAL = VYDAR
PLANET = EBERRON
SPECIES = WARFORGED
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = SOLDIER
PERSONALITY = LOYAL
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 2
POINTS = 110/???

SHIELD BASH
If Charger begins his turn unengaged, opponent's figures roll 1 fewer defense dice when attacked by Charger this turn.

WAR-HAMMER SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
Choose a figure to attack. Any figures adjacent to both Charger and the chosen figure are affected by War-Hammer Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

WARFORGED RESOLVE
When Charger rolls defense dice against a normal or special attack, add 1 automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

I'm more partial to the first, but that's just me.

[Scytale]

I think just changing the class and personality is enough to focus the design, but your two suggested reworks are significant improvements, imo. I'm partial to the leader version as well (though that will require the most testing prior to submission) as he changes army builds, though the second version is a decent solo hero, probably solid in a dungeon crawl.

Incidentally, I rather like the figure, enough that I made a custom with it as well. Is there enough availability for an SoV submission?

[Son of Arathorn]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I think just changing the class and personality is enough to focus the design, but your two suggested reworks are significant improvements, imo. I'm partial to the leader version as well (though that will require the most testing prior to submission) as he changes army builds, though the second version is a decent solo hero, probably solid in a dungeon crawl.

Incidentally, I rather like the figure, enough that I made a custom with it as well. Is there enough availability for an SoV submission?

15 at auggies, 45 at miniaturemarket, and most online miniature stores have at least 3-4. For a Unique Hero, probably close.

I'll start testing with the leader version, with any further feedback taken into account.

[IshMEL]

Thanks all for your input on Lord Revadac. I think "Tormented" works just as well with his bio. I also liked "Cruel" which captures his disdain for his own troops, but doesn't quite capture his blaming them for his current rotting state, causing the soon-to-be-renamed "Insane Commander." (Yep, I've just psychoanalyzed a plastic miniature skeleton.)

On the first power, I'd also considered "Withering Grasp", among these other fine suggestions, but I still like the connection on "Cadaverous" to his name so I'm going to go with "Cadaverous Grasp". (Although how cool would "Liquefactive Necrosis" be?) The "Grasp" part gets across the "I grab your sword hand as you wound me" better than "Touch" did.

For the second power, I nearly went with "A Momentary Lapse Of Reason", but he really looks more Iron Maiden than Pink Floyd. "Fit Of Madness" better captures what's going on with this power (see psychoanalysis above.) But... any thoughts on "Eternal Madness" as a possibility? It hearkens to "Eternal Hatred" which everyone's familiar with as a somewhat-similar negative power. I also feel like it better explains the "story" behind the power without having to read the bio.

So to sum up:
Personality: Tormented
First Power: Cadaverous Grasp
Second Power: Eternal Madness

Your suggestions, as always, are greatly appreciated.

[caps]

SoA, I like the first revision better than the original, but it makes him feel very much like a Warlord. Not sure what to suggest--all of the Warforged heroes so far have had a distinctly original power. Maybe that's what's bugging me about this design--it doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table. Many times that's okay, and maybe it's okay in this case, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.

IshMEL, I like where you're headed. Cadaverous Grasp seems like a step up, but is there anyway you can make it slightly more clear that its a defensive reaction? Cadaverous Countergrasp sounds too literal, but something along those lines?

[Son of Arathorn]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

SoA, I like the first revision better than the original, but it makes him feel very much like a Warlord. Not sure what to suggest--all of the Warforged heroes so far have had a distinctly original power. Maybe that's what's bugging me about this design--it doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table. Many times that's okay, and maybe it's okay in this case, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.

Something tells me you might've hit on something. If I keep the leadership aspect, but give him a somewhat unique power pertaining to that aspect (that's not too complicated) it'd give the design at least a better factor of interest.

So I'd keep one of his leadership powers (either combat leader or warforged leadership), add a new power, and keep warforged resolve. What about this:



NAME = VANGUARD
GENERAL = VYDAR
PLANET = EBERRON
SPECIES = WARFORGED
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = LEADER
PERSONALITY = INSPIRING
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 2
POINTS = 130/???

COMBAT LEADER
If at least one order marker is on Vanguard, you may add 3 to your initiative roll.

WARFORGED ASSAULT
When Vanguard, or a Warforged Unique Hero you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Vanguard destroys an opponents figure, you may immediately take a turn with a Warforged Common Squad you control. Figures moved by Warforged Assault must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Vanguard prior to moving.

WARFORGED RESOLVE
When Vanguard rolls defense dice against a normal or special attack, add 1 automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

This makes for sort of a canned build when playing, or at least a somewhat limited build.

Kinda going beyond minor changes and into the realm of design reworking.

Am I on something of the right track here, or have I gone completely off the rails.

[caps]

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

Something tells me you might've hit on something. If I keep the leadership aspect, but give him a somewhat unique power pertaining to that aspect (that's not too complicated) it'd give the design at least a better factor of interest.

So I'd keep one of his leadership powers (either combat leader or warforged leadership), add a new power, and keep warforged resolve. What about this:



NAME = VANGUARD
GENERAL = VYDAR
PLANET = EBERRON
SPECIES = WARFORGED
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = LEADER
PERSONALITY = INSPIRING
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 2
POINTS = 130/???

COMBAT LEADER
If at least one order marker is on Vanguard, you may add 3 to your initiative roll.

WARFORGED ASSAULT
When Vanguard, or a Warforged Unique Hero you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Vanguard destroys an opponents figure, you may immediately take a turn with a Warforged Common Squad you control. Figures moved by Warforged Assault must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Vanguard prior to moving.

WARFORGED RESOLVE
When Vanguard rolls defense dice against a normal or special attack, add 1 automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

This makes for sort of a canned build when playing, or at least a somewhat limited build.

Kinda going beyond minor changes and into the realm of design reworking.

Am I on something of the right track here, or have I gone completely off the rails.

Hm, that's a little more original, but I feel like I've seen the "if wound is inflicted, take a turn with X" mechanic elsewhere (maybe just a brainstorm thread somewhere). I'm not sure bonding is quite what I had in mind when I said "original."

FWIW, I'm not entirely sure that you'd be wrong to go the solo-hero route, since all of the previous Warforged heroes went that route. The main thing is that whatever route you go it should be distinct and interesting.

-----

Vanguard is a fine warforged-ish name, although it might not be the best one.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

WARFORGED ASSAULT
When Vanguard, or a Warforged Unique Hero you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Vanguard destroys an opponents figure, you may immediately take a turn with a Warforged Common Squad you control. Figures moved by Warforged Assault must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Vanguard prior to moving.

Neat idea, but it won't work as-is. The common squad would be taking its turn during the hero's turn, creating turn stacking. It could maybe be reworded to allow for the turn after the hero's turn, but I'd have to think about the potential problems that could create.

[caps]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Neat idea, but it won't work as-is. The common squad would be taking its turn during the hero's turn, creating turn stacking. It could maybe be reworded to allow for the turn after the hero's turn, but I'd have to think about the potential problems that could create.

Scytale is right of course.

Since this figure seems to be heading into redesign territory rather than just workshopping territory, I suggest you pull him, unless you want to focus on one of the earlier iterations that was more similar to the original idea.

[1Mmirg]

Cadaverous Blight?
Cadaverous Cloud?
Curse of the Crypt?
Aura of Death?

Not sure what you actually have in mind. Does he literally try to grab everyone who attacks him? Or is he infected with something that when he's attacked is released? (Like mummy dust or alien blood?)

I'll admit that I see it more as a Necrotic Dust or something that is stirred when he is struck--often back in the face of the one who hit him. But I'm not sure what you are going for.

[Heroscaper Guy]

Originally Posted by 1Mmirg

Cadaverous Blight?
Cadaverous Cloud?
Curse of the Crypt?
Aura of Death?

Not sure what you actually have in mind. Does he literally try to grab everyone who attacks him? Or is he infected with something that when he's attacked is released? (Like mummy dust or alien blood?)

I'll admit that I see it more as a Necrotic Dust or something that is stirred when he is struck--often back in the face of the one who hit him. But I'm not sure what you are going for.

From the original name it sounds like he grabs them and spreads a sort of infection in retribution for the attack.

[Serenity]

For the Vanguard Leadership ability- I'd like to see some limiter in there, even if it's a minor one. Let him add 1 to movement for all warforged that start their movement within 8(10?) clear spaces of him. Then you can't just stick him in your start zone and benefit the entire game. You might have to spend a turn maneuvering him up for maximum benefit. At least it could require a little thought and strategy this way.

I also think his initiative bonus should only work if all order markers are on warforged units. He looks more like the leader of the warforged, not anyone who happens to be thrown in with him.

---

For Lord Revadac, I like the sound of Cadaver Particles. Just the sort of thing to be kicked up and breathed in when you hit him.

As far as his Insanity, I wish you'd take it even further. Make the fail hurt even more, have him attack the nearest friendly creature (moving to them, if he's able to reach them). But, on a high success (17+?) give him a +2 to attack, defense and move for the turn.

I'd love if he had another ability - Inspiring Fear. Give +1 movement to all your units that start within 4 spaces of him. So, do you move him up with your troops and benefit from the fear-inspired movement bonus, but risk him turning on his own troops in his madness? Or do you leave him in the back, sending his troops out to fight and die before he takes the field in a mad rush? I like this sort of risk-based decision making where it makes sense.