Competitive Unit Congress

[caps]

The only place where I've looked at CUC units and thought they might be broken alongside C3V units is CUC's Jotun + C3V's Dreadgul Raiders.

Sudema is so weak to start, that even with C3V's Crypt Guardians she still is not very good. I can't imagine that playing the CGs with the CUC version of Sudema would truly break anything. For Stare of Stone to really go crazy with CG boosts there would have to be a lot of figures engaged with CGs. Since you can move a maximum of 2 CGs an OM it would not be hard for a smart player to avoid too many engagements at a time, like playing against an FE.

[Dignan]

We're going to start working on some additional units here. Some units have been produced since the original list was made and I think they fall within the scope of this project. So below are the units we are going to start looking at:

Non-viable Unit List Additions

Ana Karithon
Ashigaru Yari
Brandis Skyhunter
Chardris
Emirroon
Erevan Sunshadow
Greater Ice Elemental
Jorhdawn
Kato Katsuro
Sahugin Raider
Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
Sir Dupuis
Ulginesh

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

Can we simply retcon the official ruling that Brunak and Theracus cannot take their carried figure with them when summoned by Saylind? While it was an official ruling, it's in direct opposition to the wording on the cards. When Theracus or Brumak move, they get to take a figure with them. If you roll a successful summon with Saylind, you move the summoned figure next to her. I don't get how you could possibly think that's not allowed.

What if Saylind gets to stand still and increase her chance of summoning? And what if when successfully spawning in a squad figure, she gets to roll for another, and so on, up to a limit of 3 squad figures? She's not really viable with squads, and with small heroes she's kind of just Theracus except more expensive and luck based.

[Dignan]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

Can we simply retcon the official ruling that Brunak and Theracus cannot take their carried figure with them when summoned by Saylind? While it was an official ruling, it's in direct opposition to the wording on the cards. When Theracus or Brumak move, they get to take a figure with them. If you roll a successful summon with Saylind, you move the summoned figure next to her. I don't get how you could possibly think that's not allowed.

That's dicey. Once there has been an official ruling on something, I'd hate to go directly against it. It would probably be easier to find an alternate way to boost Saylind. Not too mention, if that's one of the main boosts, Saylind will need to be constantly fielded with those two to be worth it.

What if Saylind gets to stand still and increase her chance of summoning? And what if when successfully spawning in a squad figure, she gets to roll for another, and so on, up to a limit of 3 squad figures? She's not really viable with squads, and with small heroes she's kind of just Theracus except more expensive and luck based.

Yeah, there are a lot of options. I think summoning multiple figures is really needed. I love the figure and really want to examine cool ways to fix the card.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

What if her chance of summoning rises depending on how many enemies are within a certain distance and in LoS?

And the summoning carrier units retcon wouldn't be the only buff she'd get.

[Seraph]

The squad summon idea of letting her try on a second squad figure if she succeeds sounds cool. That would give her an ability that sets her apart from carryers even more.
Another approach could be to give the summoned figure a turn instead of attacking with saylind (after moving and instead of attacking... then take a turn with that figure). Or even give the whole squad a turn (after summoning just one figure).

[TheSparkleInYourWater]

A simple way to make Saylind more viable would be to simply add to her power: After using Spear of Summoning, Saylind may use Spear of Summoning 1 additional time.

The ability to use it twice makes it much more likely to succeed at least once (84%) while giving a decent shot to summon 2 figures (36%). It also keeps it simple and doesn't alter the card too much. Points could be changed as needed.

Also, I disagree about Kato (and the Yari) not being viable. That army has been competitive in my experience.

[Dignan]

Originally Posted by TheSparkleInYourWater

Also, I disagree about Kato (and the Yari) not being viable. That army has been competitive in my experience.

That's interesting. I guess we haven't seen that build show up at our events. I'm open to removing it from the list. What builds have you seen do well?

[TheSparkleInYourWater]

Originally Posted by Dignan

That's interesting. I guess we haven't seen that build show up at our events. I'm open to removing it from the list. What builds have you seen do well?

Funny, last year a friend saw the Kato/Ashigaru with my other scape and asked why he'd never seen anyone use them and concluded it must be because they were not very good.

I convinced him they were good and he used them in 2 games, losing both. Both of those games were really close, though, and I think he would have won both in a rematch, as he made some mistakes. I ended up using them twice after that, winning both times. The army for 3 of those games was Kato, Yari x3, Harqs x3. The other one was 400 pts. with Kato, Yari x2, Harqs x2 (I won that one).

Soon after that I used them in an online event last year. The format was bring 2, 500pts. 24 space start zone. I took Kato, Yari x3, Harqs x3, dropped 1 figure each game.

That army went 5-1 that event. With wins over a Braxas/Greenscale/Raelin army, a 4th Mass/Charos army, a Kantono Daishi/Ninja army, a Kurrok/Elemental army, and a Macdirk army. The one loss was against a Cathar Spearmen/Krav build. Several of those wins were blowouts.

The army is really limited to 1 build plan, that being Kato with however many squads of Harqs/Yari you can fit. Raelin could be added to allow you to get by with less figures in restricted start zone formats..

I think the army can compete against most stuff, they've just got so much attack potential per turn, although they have some feared match-ups. Anyone that can get explosion attacks off on your start-zone, most prominently Zelrig, have the potential to really wreck the army in a hurry. And some other figures like DW8000 can potentially get several kills a turn. The other potential challenge for them to overcome is Kato's LOS getting blocked. I haven't found this to be that big of a problem on most maps, as the Yari Spears give you a surprising amount of leeway in getting LOS to keep activating the squads. Kato usually has a few blind spots on any given map, but they're usually pretty easy to avoid, and Kato can get through most games without needing to move.

I think that army could be pretty devastating in heat of battle format as well, but haven't had the chance to try it out.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

What if Saylind had different probabilities to spawn in common, uncommon, or unique figures? And after each successful roll, she could roll again up to a certain limit? And if she didn't move this turn, she could add 2 to her d20 rolls?

16 or higher on a common figure? 12 or higher on an uncommon or unique one?

What if the probabilities were kept the same, but you could spawn in a whole army card at a time?

[G1shark]

From a theatrical standpoint, summoning a entire common squad at a time would look pretty amazing/intimidating, depending on the squad it could be extremely powerful though, like landing Omnicron snipers on top of a plateau in the center of a map.

[Dignan]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

What if Saylind had different probabilities to spawn in common, uncommon, or unique figures? And after each successful roll, she could roll again up to a certain limit? And if she didn't move this turn, she could add 2 to her d20 rolls?

16 or higher on a common figure? 12 or higher on an uncommon or unique one?

What if the probabilities were kept the same, but you could spawn in a whole army card at a time?

Yeah, I like the idea of changing up the odds based on what is summoned. This weekend I'll take a look at the wording and the spacing on the army card and take a few stabs at what it could end up as.