The Book of Syvarris

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Aldin

I think the argument for Ne-Gok-Sa to be an "A" is stronger than the argument for Syvarris to be an "A". I love Syvarris and I love outranging my foes. It's worth quite a bit and makes him more valuable in matches where you each try to bring an army the other person can't use as well as you can. If he had one more point of defense he'd be a beast. As it stands, he's just a bit too fragile.

All of that, naturally, is geared to the idea of standard map, 500 point, blind matchup, kill 'em all. In a "heroes only" match he becomes more valuable. Throwing eight attack dice from height at a range of 9 is quite an accomplishment for a hero.

~Aldin, Leg-O-Lassy

I hear ya, but then again, if he had one more defense, he'd cost more, like 110-120-ish, seems to me. He's good as is, IMO.

Didn't even realize Ne-gok-Sa was a B! Yet another guy who should be in the A catagory, if only for his defense abilities.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by TheAverageFan

I understand Owlman's view, but you gotta acknowledge that that rankings are taken very seriously and won't change overnight just because you personally think it's wrong.

I for one think it's absurd that Ne-Gok-Sa is only ranked as a "B" unit. However, that just makes him an "A" in my book, and it's not like the official ranking has any effect on how he plays out when I use him at home. He is and will continue to be an "A" unit at the TAF household. So I ain't complaining.

~TAF, conclusively (hopefully)

That's exactly where I stand too. Put me down for another fan who thinks Ne-Gok-Sa should be an A.

[TheAverageFan]

Originally Posted by Owlman

That's exactly where I stand too. Put me down for another fan who thinks Ne-Gok-Sa should be an A.

If you think he's an A then he's an A. Choose not to care what anyone else thinks. Again, the official rating has no real impact on anything gameplay-wise.

~TAF, whose even had great successes with Hatamato Taro

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Dysole

We'll see what he does. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. If he does not wish to do the same, I'm pretty much done.

~Dysole, easily suckered into arguments especially ones that involve math ~_^

3x Rats vs. anything are pretty much amazing. We all know they're over powered for what they can do. Should cost about 50-60ish points, but that ain't changin' anytime soon.

Glads are great, yes, but as a stand alone unit or as part of a group, but I still stand by my statements that Syvarris is still in the catagory of top dogs. Feel free to disagree.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by TheAverageFan

If you think he's an A then he's an A. Choose not to care what anyone else thinks. Again, the official rating has no real impact on anything gameplay-wise.

~TAF

Yep, I know. But what can I say, I'm a sucker for swimming against the tides.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

Oh, I've got no problem with Owlman's opinion on Syvarris. If he wants to think that Syvarris is an A unit, who am I to argue? Maybe he's got some great insight into the nature of the game, maybe he's flat-out wrong. Doesn't make much of a difference to me.

What I take issue with is Owlman's method of arguing- asserting that he's absolutely right, then being incredibly condescending with anybody who tries to engage him in a conversation. If anybody calls him on his attitude, he backtracks, then reframes his position as something more peaceable. Feels like this happens in most of the threads that he visits. It's annoying, and it's rude.

To those who try to be more patient with Owlman, I envy you- I'd rather be kind than caustic. But my patience with him ran out a while ago.

~SoA, calling 'em like he sees 'em

I do not back track. I stand by my beliefs and opinions, just like the rest of us. Sure, I've made a few mistakes in a couple threads, and if memory serves, I actually made an apology thread for it, in case it slipped your mind, or you just didn't see it.

I have been very respectful in this thread.

[Dysole]

I said I was done so I will be. I'm clearly not going to convince you that Syvarris is not an A unit (since I think he loses to the A- figures which would not make him an A unit) but I will agree with dok that he is probably a B+. I again extend my offer. If you want to convince me otherwise let me know and I can set up a game for us to play.

~Dysole, who thinks NGS is another B+

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by wriggz

It is about Teams (the composition of your army). Syvarris is great if the army limit is 100 points. However given the option of Syvarris + 400 points or 500 points of anything else, most people would go with 500 points of anything else (even if they are blind to what they are up against).

Syvarris simply does not have enough synergy with other units or enough survivablity and fire power to warrant drafting a slew of cheerleader and base your whole army around one figure.

I agree, it is about teams, although I say Syvarris can be a great team player, in competitive or casual, at least in most of my games. Also, I never said to draft an entire army around him, not sure where that came from. He should be a sniper, sittin' back and takin' pot shots, trying to stay away from the fray. Sure, he may die in the end, but I feel if he's played right, he can devastate for his point cost. If he was any more expensive, I'd completely agree, he'd belong in the B/C category.

Which really was my point all along, I suppose.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Dysole

I said I was done so I will be. I'm clearly not going to convince you that Syvarris is not an A unit (since I think he loses to the A- figures which would not make him an A unit) but I will agree with dok that he is probably a B+. I again extend my offer. If you want to convince me otherwise let me know and I can set up a game for us to play.

~Dysole, who thinks NGS is another B+

Thanks for the offer, but I'm gonna pass. Let's just agree to disagree.

I just don't think either of us would sway his opinions based upon a few games. I could roll horribly, or you could just rush in with someone and wreck him. That doesn't prove anything. In a game based around dice rolling, it ultimately comes down to who rolls better, IMO.

[Dysole]

Originally Posted by Owlman

In a game based around dice rolling, it ultimately comes down to who rolls better, IMO.

I disagree. While games can be decided by better dice rolls, usually they are not. A more skilled player often puts themselves in a position where bad dice are mitigated or where their opponent's good dice are ineffective. I have seen it borne out over and over again and certain players continually rise to the top much more often than "who rolls better" would indicate.

My offer of games was to show you that maybe you are unfamiliar with how Syvarris can be stopped or what strategies work well in blocking him or making him not nearly the terror you seem to experience. You don't seem to understand the power of Glad/Blast so it seemed a reasonable assumption.

I will say I am more than willing to change my opinion of a unit based upon performance. I used to think the Cutters were terrible until someone showed me that I was playing them like Deathreavers. I gained a new appreciation for Valguard after watching people play with him. I could go on and on. My offer was to expand your horizons and give you an opportunity to see some playstyles and/or units you might not have considered.

~Dysole, cordially

[Ninja Status]

Originally Posted by Owlman

Heh. N00b, eh? That's rich... I've been playin' this game since it came out in 2004. So because one guy disagree's with the almighty spiderpoison and Jexik's opinions, I'm a n00b? Way to assume, there, Hoss'...

Just a thought, but ya might not wanna do this when you post in the future like you just did:

*Sigh* Owlman, just stop.

SoA clearly posted what he posted because you are acting like a child. If you want to be respected on this site I highly suggest you start acting your age.

Sorry guys, I'm leaving this thread alone now, I just wanted to back up my brother. Peace.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Dysole

I disagree. While games can be decided by better dice rolls, usually they are not. A more skilled player often puts themselves in a position where bad dice are mitigated or where their opponent's good dice are ineffective. I have seen it borne out over and over again and certain players continually rise to the top much more often than "who rolls better" would indicate.

My offer of games was to show you that maybe you are unfamiliar with how Syvarris can be stopped or what strategies work well in blocking him or making him not nearly the terror you seem to experience. You don't seem to understand the power of Glad/Blast so it seemed a reasonable assumption.

I will say I am more than willing to change my opinion of a unit based upon performance. I used to think the Cutters were terrible until someone showed me that I was playing them like Deathreavers. I gained a new appreciation for Valguard after watching people play with him. I could go on and on. My offer was to expand your horizons and give you an opportunity to see some playstyles and/or units you might not have considered.

~Dysole, cordially

Eh, I agree placement certainly helps, but to me, in the grand scheme of things, the dice decide your fate. Thank you for the offer though.