The Book of Clayface (Basil Karlo) (II)

[Soundwarp SG-1]

I think assuming the first power is ‘he’s been pretending to be this guy the whole time’ is the wrong way to go about it.

Like the theme should be more like ‘at some point prior to this attack, he and the other dude switched out with each other and the other guy took a secret route back to the start zone’ IMO.

Then you don’t get stuck in a downward spiral of trying to answer every little theme issue in a game that cannot possibly cover such things.

[tcglkn]

What Soundwarp said is how I saw it.

[IAmBatman]

I do think that's a fair take. The "random switcheroo that happened off camera at some point" trope is strong in comics.

[johnny139]

I think the question then is what's more important: the mechanics of the "switcheroo" or the theme of the "this person was actually Clayface all along." If it's the latter, and you want to get REALLY theme consistent, you can make it so that you move/attack/take turn with the chosen figure, and use their stats, but you use Clayface's special powers. Or you could just limit him to, say, only replacing Humans or something.

Frankly though, I can imagine Clayface doing MOST things through showmanship and illusion with his clay powers. I can handwave flying and brain blasts. Dude's sentient mud, I'm sure he'll figure something out.

One thing I think would be cool is to turn Claymation into a more passive thing, which I think might help with the "lame duck" thing:

CLAYMATION
When Clayface is placed on the battlefield, and at the start of each round if there is an Order Marker on this card, you may choose up to 3 figures within 3 clear sight spaces of Clayface. Players must roll the 20-sided die once for each chosen figure they control. If 7 or lower is rolled, that figure receives 1 wound and you may place it on an empty space adjacent to Clayface, ignoring any leaving engagement attacks.

Which gives you an incentive to drop him in, and is a pretty iconic moment - "OH NO IT'S CLAYFACE!" as suddenly a bunch of people are sucked into a vortex. Still a sitting duck, but you get the tiedown effect immediately.

[Arkham]

Ok, so if the theme is they sneak off or something, I'd rather they not go all the way back to the start zone. And to avoid sitting duck syndrome 'til the following round, I like opening up Claymation to work passively as well. So here's what I'm thinking:

NAME = CLAYFACE
SECRET IDENTITY = BASIL KARLO

SPECIES = METAHUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = ANTAGONIST
PERSONALITY = INSANE?

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 6

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 3
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = ~245

DEBUT ACT
Start the game with Clayface on this card. When a friendly figure is attacked, you may place it unengaged on an empty space up to 6 spaces away from its current placement, ignoring leaving engagements. Place Clayface on the space previously occupied by that figure, and he must defend against that attack.

CLAYMATION
Instead of attacking, or after defending with Clayface, choose up to X non-huge figures within 3 clear sight spaces of him. X equals the number of wounds on this card. Players must roll the 20-sided die once for each chosen figure they control. If 7 or lower is rolled, that figure receives 1 wound and you may place it on an empty space adjacent to Clayface, ignoring any leaving engagement attacks.

CLAY CONSTRUCTION
Non-huge figures engaged with Clayface may not move and subtract 3 from any 20-sided die rolls. After taking a turn with Clayface, if he is not on a water space, remove a Wound Marker from this card.

SUPER STRENGTH

[IAmBatman]

One thing I'm not clear on: Does Clay Construction subtract from Claymation rolls?

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

One thing I'm not clear on: Does Clay Construction subtract from Claymation rolls?

If the chosen figures are engaged with him and not huge, yes. So the idea would be to get as many engaged to him as possible, because it prevents them from moving, and makes the rolls to avoid being wounded by his Claymation harder to beat, along with other rolls in the faction that they are forced to make such as Grundy Crush or Ultra-Force Shield etc., as well as whatever powers they have for rolling of course, such as Batman's Evasive Strike.

Almost makes me wonder if Giganta's roll should be pushed to the opponent. Obviously, they all want the opponent rolling as that's what Lex helps with.

[IAmBatman]

Eh, I worry if you stack strength on strength too much you end up with an extremely swingy faction that wins by huge margins when it wins. Like if every enemy I go after makes me roll a D20 and all of them stack multiple wounds for failure, that feels like it's going to lead to a lot of brutal, crushing, unfun losses.

Edit: Just to clarify my original question it was more because the wording reads a bit blurry to me in that one power has you rolling for the figure and the other has the figure subtracting from the roll. I assumed the intent was what it was, but I can see it being misread as well.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Honestly not a big fan of the whole 'this works differently than every other D-20 power just so it works with Lex' thing in the first place, so I wouldn't want to see Giganta changed.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Eh, I worry if you stack strength on strength too much you end up with an extremely swingy faction that wins by huge margins when it wins. Like if every enemy I go after makes me roll a D20 and all of them stack multiple wounds for failure, that feels like it's going to lead to a lot of brutal, crushing, unfun losses.

Edit: Just to clarify my original question it was more because the wording reads a bit blurry to me in that one power has you rolling for the figure and the other has the figure subtracting from the roll. I assumed the intent was what it was, but I can see it being misread as well.

I'm not seeing the confusion there.

"Players must roll the 20-sided die once for each chosen figure they control." -the opposing player has to roll if their figure is chosen.

"Non-huge figures engaged with Clayface may not move and subtract 3 from any 20-sided die rolls." -the figure engaged with Clayface subtracts 3 from their 20-sided die rolls.

Open to any wording tweaks.

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

Honestly not a big fan of the whole 'this works differently than every other D-20 power just so it works with Lex' thing in the first place, so I wouldn't want to see Giganta changed.

Logistically it's the same thing. You're either rolling for Giganta's accuracy, or you're having the opponent roll for their reaction time. It's no different than a Reflex save or Dexterity save in D&D/Pathfinder.

I guess I just like cohesive faction building. Lex subtracting from enemy d20 rolls sort of serves no purpose if the opposing team has no d20 rollers. This creates opportunity, while thematically still making just as much sense. Forcing opponents to roll is nothing new.

[IAmBatman]

Figures aren't rolling dice, players are, essentially, so specifying figures has a way of making it potentially read like it's only for powers on their cards. But probably not something that would confuse most people.

[Arkham]

The wording is taken from Lex, so we could always re-clarify.

I can put this on hold if this isn't a direction people prefer to go.