The Book of Hawkeye (Clint Barton) (Avengers)

[IAmBatman]

I forgot that we didn't go Archer for Hawkeye (I). That makes going Archer here more compelling for sure. I agree that having a standard, boots on the ground Hawkeye who's an Archer is desirable.

[japes]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

I think the argument for him being an Archer is something like;
1) He’s probably going to want Cap over Quill because of the natural Avengers synergy and he’s Human so he can’t run with both Cap and Quill together.
2) There’s now Hawkeye synergy (Kate) that relies on him being an Archer. It’s not just weird unthematic pairings with DC characters.
3) We don’t have a “standard” Hawkeye with a class of Archer. I’d reckon most people don’t really think of the Skycycle when they think of Hawkeye, especially considering he’s never used it in the movies. So if somebody currently wants to play the Kate/Clint combo, they have to go with the Skycycle version which I think is alien to a lot of people.

This is how I feel as well. Leader as a class always feels off to me anyway. Powers should show the leadership portion.

[Yodaking]

Alright, Archer it is then. SP is updated, changes made in red. I propose Hawkeye III for Initial PT. Thoughts on what range I should test him at? Was looking at maybe 180, but not sure. 3 team tests, 1 with CA, 1 with a bunch of Archers, 1 leading his own crew of peeps. Thinking I team him up with Nebula, so she can also take advantage of the def. power negation should Hawkeye fail to wound after negating. Anyone else able to go after Hawkeye attacks to try and use the power negation? Pit him against armies with at least one unit with a significant def. power he'll want to negate.

Yoda - yea
Japes - yea

[MrNobody]

Bullseye often kills well over his point value for me at 175, and Hawkeye is better in a fair amount of ways. (He’s admittedly weaker in a few ways too though.) Bullseye has Assassin synergy, but Hawk has some good synergy going for him too. I’d guess 180 is probably on the low end, but I’m not amazing at guessing that kind of thing.

[Yodaking]

Competitive Checklist:

Does the design disrupt opponent's Order Markers in a way that offers a net gain in turns taken with strong figures versus the turns your opponent can take with strong figures (Ozymandias, Joker (I), Meteorite)?

No

Does the design offer auto-wounding that either doesn't require taking turns or is otherwise extremely efficient (War Machine, Jason Voorhees, Cosmic Cube)?

No

Does the design immobilize figures or prevent turn-taking (Blob, Spider-Girl, Diablo, Green Lantern Alan)?

Kinda, depends on the defensive power he is negating. Effect only last for his player turn when it does come into play.

Does the design move opponent's figures in a way that's easy to pull off and can move figures multiple spaces in multiple directions (Graviton, Magneto, Vulture)?

No

Does the design allow for moving friendly figures without taking turns, or for moving 2+ friendly figures while still taking a turn (Martian Manhunter [I], Green Lantern John, Angel)?

Yes, himself only.

Does the figure allow for two figures, one of them being a wide range of possible figures, to both attack on a single Order Marker (Zombie, Robot, Iron Patriot, Ms. Marvel, Rocket [II], Martian Manhunter [II], Nebula, Baby Groot, Havok)?

No, he only attacks if another figure does not attack.

Does the design offer any sort of passive boost outside of a narrow set of figures (Star-Lord, Sage, Brainiac 5, Captain America, Batman [III])?

No

Does the design help keep your allies alive just by being nearby (Daring
Decoy, Aaron Cash, Jocasta, Weather Wizard)?

No

Is it OK for the design to have defensive abilities that could make it essentially unkillable in some matchups or endgame situations (Cosmic Cube, Healing Factor, Master Martial Artist)?

N/A

If the figure has auto-destroy powers or powers that can force the opponent's figures to attack each other, are they balanced for strong opposing figures and/or boosts that can make the powers more reliable (Puppet Master, Psycho-Man, Enchantress)?

N/A

Is the figure likely to earn its value many times over by either running out alone at the start of a battle (pre-eval Crow, Solomon Grundy) or by sitting in the startzone until the end of a battle (Arnim Zola, Silk Spectre)?

No

Will synergies in the design create concerns for future designs (Mad Thinker, pre-eval Enchantress, Star-Lord)?

Don't think so.

Does the design combo particularly well with one of the design concerns above (Magma)?

No

[Yodaking]

Just posting some army ideas for later:

CIVIL WAR RESHUFFLE
Hawkeye III @190
CA 240
Giant-Man 180
Spider-Man 250
Falcon 140...........1000 points

EYE OF THE TIGER
Hawkeye III @200
Hawkeye (Kate) 140
Tigra 170
Bronze Tiger 210
Mandarin 280............1000 points

WRECK-IT CLINT
Hawkeye III @210
WC 800...................1010 points

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

Anyone else able to go after Hawkeye attacks to try and use the power negation?

Ms Marvel is a big pairing here Avengers wise, but the way his Avengers power works you can just slot him literally anywhere with unique Hero bonding. Professor X build with Angel would be a big one.

I’d strongly suggest either limiting the Avenger power to only being able to trigger during an ‘order marker’ turn, or at least only being usable once per player turn. There is a lot of cheese you can do right now, it’s a very dangerous design CRB wise.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Bob and Carol and Ted and Ringo are one of the main builds I can think of that get a massive boost from him right now. Being able to convert a pure melee ‘squad’ into one that can drop three potent ranged attacks per player turn is a huge boost. Wrecking Crew are another good one off the top of my head. Even if he does get a change to only triggering once per player turn, those kinda builds would still be what I’d test, that’s definitely where he’d be at his strongest I think.

[IAmBatman]

I'm coming up with about 215 on the calculator. Solid powers.

[Yodaking]

Yeah, I was looking at pairing him up with Luke Cage there thinking that being able to use his power twice in one OM reveal is something that needed to be explored. I mean he could negate a def. power when attacking for Luke, then add an auto-skull when attacking for Tigra and the def. power would still be negated. Might be best just to drop the player turn language now for the def. negation. Then Nebula doesn't become such a good pairing anymore. He'd still be able to use the power twice when paired up with a bonding pair though, is that really a big concern since it's just a changing of who attacks and not adding extra attacks?

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

Bob and Carol and Ted and Ringo are one of the main builds I can think of that get a massive boost from him right now. Being able to convert a pure melee ‘squad’ into one that can drop three potent ranged attacks per player turn is a huge boost. Wrecking Crew are another good one off the top of my head. Even if he does get a change to only triggering once per player turn, those kinda builds would still be what I’d test, that’s definitely where he’d be at his strongest I think.

Hmmm...yeah, BCTR & the WC chain of turns would be a lot of free moves and substituted attacks. Let me try and reword it to once per turn.

[IAmBatman]

Fwiw, my costimate was based on assuming you'd put that restriction in place, since we usually listen to the CRB on that kinda thing.