FeedBack and thank you's for 2016

[Dad_Scaper]

Everybody was great. Huge thanks to Fomox and his crew for running everything, and to Lefton4ya, for handling the bits of paper while I ran General Wars with him. Thanks to Matthias for setting the standard before Fomox, and to Rÿchean for setting the standard before that.

1. Wendigo is not a good map for competitive play. The others seemed fine and I've used them all on more than one occasion, but Wendigo has several problems and should be abandoned.

2. Reverse the Whip is fine as a Main Event. It's a quality middle ground format, between the camps of (1) bring your own army and (2) maybe have to use something you didn't construct in advance.

3. However, there were (other than Day 2) *no* events for people who prefer formats that force you to play something other than a pre-constructed army of your own devising. That's unfortunate, because there is a community of people here who really want that. I have really enjoyed the Take 2 tournaments I've played in, and there should (IMHO) always be room for a pair of events featuring something like that. It doesn't have to be complicated, but just *something* other than play-the-army-you-brought.

4. I also think that full card scoring + point differential is a pain in the neck, both for the players and for the TDs. Partial card scoring is not perfect, but (1) it captures the board state in a way that is normally going to be a better picture of what's happened over the course of the game, and (2) it'll also make mathing easier for the players and the TDs - who have to check it - between rounds.

In my events, it's simple: If you won, regardless of whether it's on time or it's just by eliminating your opponent's pieces, you get the full load of points. In a 500 point format, you get 500 points, even if the game ended on time or your opponent was playing light. Easy to remember. Your opponent gets points for damage done. It's simpler, it does a better & more consistent job of capturing the board state, and it encourages players to keep swinging with what's available at the end, instead of counterintuitive maneuvers like hiding wounded heroes in the back.

We've grumbled with full card scoring in the past and coped with it. I think, though, that - as Xorlof wrote above - it's just untenable, when combined with scoring differential. Scrap both, replace with partial card scoring, and let's do it that way next year.

5. As for rewarding weird armies, Take 2 and similar formats encourage builds like that. Fomox deserves credit for introducing the sportsmanship prizes this year, which did *precisely* what Tornado was suggesting. Fomox also deserves credit for the Learn to Play events, which were brilliant. Several passersby were interested; if we had more, we could have signed them up.

[Tornado]

If you had more what?
More volunteers?

[Hendal]

I would like to see and OLD SCHOOL - HS event. What is old school you ask, well to me the tourneys HS'ers held where amazing.

1. everyone brings a prize
2. everyone gets a prize.

It makes you want to stay till the end so you get prizes. We have no more real support ( for prizes and such , lots of support from the community ) so why not take it into our our hands. The older people usually bring a few prizes, the younger ones not so much. Custom stuff for heroscape, other games, anything game related will do as a prize, make it so it should be at least $10 or of that value or more. It is the custom terrain that always went first in the tourneys I attended or held, so anyone can bring something they made that was more time then money of they are hard up for cash ( and at GC on a shoestring ).
My favorite part is there are always extra prizes and you have a giant roll off for them, everyone rolling D20's at the same time yelling out your score, good times I tell you. Just a thought.

Also if it is all people from Heroscapers you could say, NO A Grade units and have a list of things you can not bring ( or just no squads known to really slow the game down - rats for example ).

I honestly don't care what format it would be in, but I really enjoy the 4 x ?, it is fun playing a different army 4 in a row.





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I think we have to consider we are getting to the base of the people who will come to GC to play HS. The last few years there where lots of new people for 1 or 2 games who only had part of the HS stuff or got into HS late and never got early stuff. They where clueless to the big game ( I remember wanting these people the first game or 2 for an easy win ), but still they where filling seats ( something we need and want ). I did not play against anyone like that this year, so I think we hit the point where people who got into HS late are still interested in it enough to play it at GC. Meaning the longer the game has been dead, the less new people who got into it late will show up. I think with most of those late comers playing the hard core might have been a shock ( I don't know most of the cards these guys are using and they are all about the game where as I am just a casual gamer - maybe - most of them where getting there butts handed to them ). So what I am getting at is this, we are basically seeing the same players now all the time, we are the Heroscapers so lets make the tourneys for us, lets have a few tourneys for HS'ers who will bring a prize & play all 4 games even if they lose one and they do not get first choice at the prize table.
Being the guy giving food away I also wonder if we could do a pot luck lunch the first day in the HS area. Are there any rules about ( I am guessing yes ) plugging in a crock pot by the refs table? I would bring a crock pot of pulled pork or chicken and have buns and stuff. Then I think well there must be a battery run crock pot?

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Tornado

If you had more what?
More volunteers?

More Learn to Play events. Staffing them them would be fomox's problem. I didn't see how it was structured this year, but I imagine an effective GM could teach 6 people at once, comfortably.

[dok]

It seemed like there were lots of people willing to help out in Learn to Play when cute girls signed up.

[The Orange Mailman]

I enjoyed each event I played very much and all of my opponents were fun and sportsmanlike. It was really great to be there again. I love having the Heroscapers community at GenCon because they provide a kind of "home base" in the convention center. When I'm done doing other stuff I always go back to the Heroscape tables, even if I'm not due there for an event yet

Yes!

[FilmCriticFrog]

I wanted to apologize for being the one guy who brought 4th Mass. My bad. It was my first tourney and didnt know what to expect. Thanks to Fomox and Dok in particular for being so nice to me regardless and Wookie for convincing me to persevere!

[The Orange Mailman]

Thank you thank you thank you to Fomox and crew. Everything went very well, I thought. But onto feedback on specifics.


Plus! I liked point differential. SOS always seemed so nebulous. You faced someone and then things that you had no control over after that round affected your Strength of Schedule. Someone would drop in the second round and bring your score down. Yes, winners face winners so if you win you’re theoretical score would be higher. However, I liked the point differential because someone could barely win, and then someone could blowout win and that was reflected in the score. Same thing with a blowout loss and a loss by a fraction of a hair.


Minus! Wendigo. See everyone else’s comments on this subject. I saw Mr. Chompy’s son basically win on the first round in the Main Event because his Airborne Elite dropped. He Grenade Attacked a bunch of 4th Mass. before he even moved. It’s a fun map, but not for GenCon. I also won in the Main Event solely because of this map (in my opinion). I have no problems with other maps, but it should be pointed out that the Main Event final was probably decided by a glitch on Fire Isles for figures with only 3 Height, like say, oh, Goblin Cutters maybe?


Plus! Learn to play. Let’s not just be thinking about us, but about the future. I have heard people walk by saying, “That’s Heroscape. It’s the greatest game ever but they stopped making it.”


Minus! High point total on General Wars without bringing the figure limit down. Everything went to time on this one. The high point total on Main Event was held in check, in my opinion, by the figure limit. I really like General Wars. I always sign up for that and the Main Event for certain and then decide on others secondarily. I would like to see GW continue.
Plus! Letting Day 2 play it out and not call time. Also, postponing the final until after General Wars. There’s a community feel when everyone is watching the “big showdown”.


Minus! Several maps were not set up correctly. Fomox was made aware and fixed it immediately.


Plus! Heroscapers is the best gaming community ever. Sportsmanship prizes were a nice touch.

Minus! Deroche was not there.


Plus! Slightly adjusting the point totals and events each year. Uniques Only was a nice twist. Everyone was tired of running up against Ornac, Hydra x 2. However, this year everyone ran Krav Maga Agents. So perhaps another adjustment for next year is in order.


Suggestion: With Learn to Play bringing in new players, we need to keep our future events balanced. There needs to be a mix of events that newbies will feel welcome at, and events that will give experienced players a challenge. I like the 4 x ____ because I get to play a variety of armies. Some like Heat of the Battle because the placement is a challenge before you even move and attack. However, players at their first tournament are going to want something simple. My wife has said multiple times that she would play a Heroscape event. She always says this at the close of GenCon. However, in May (or whenever) I am picking events, she doesn’t follow through. It can be daunting to walk into a group of experienced players and just want to have fun with something simple. Let’s keep new Heroscapers in mind when we are planning future tournaments. This is one reason I like General Wars because the only restriction is the General. No fancy early end game trigger like Assassin’s Creed, Treasure Quest, or Dragon’s Hoard; just straight up kill you. Plus multiple winners.


Suggestion for regulars at GenCon: The past couple of years I had the chance to talk to Raider30, Matthias, and Fomox about dealing with GenCon. It is challenging to convince GenCon that the event wasn’t a failure even though you only had 50% attendance. Raider30 said GenCon would rather see an event of 10 max sell out, than see an event of 50 max only reach 25. So here is my suggestion. I usually have a few spare Generic Tickets left over because I don’t want to wait in line. Instead of walking out with them, or turning them back in, I gave a couple to Fomox and said, “Apply them wherever you need them.” My wife volunteered for GenCon and got 2 non-refundable Generic Tickets that she didn’t need. She gave those as well. So, it’s just a suggestion, but it can make a difference in the way GenCon views Heroscapers and the events we put on.


Suggestion: Everyone seems to have an opinion on Reverse the Whip. I saw such a wide variety of armies, and people doing well with underused units. 2 people made Day 2 with Deathstalkers. Vegie made Day 2 with Elf Wizards. Kidscaper ran Einar Imperium with MDG. I ran Omnicron Snipers. I would like to see this continue. There have been some good suggestions and I think there is some redeeming value in a lot of them, but my ultimate vote (if I get one) is to keep it the same. Keep 16 finalists for Day 2 as well so we can implement another one of my suggestions for next year (Winner Brackets). I like Vegie’s idea of 1 point on Round 1, 2 points on Round 2, 4 points on Round 3, and 8 points on Round 4.


Suggestion: Full card scoring. Might as well keep it. Anything else will have just as many flaws.


Neutral: Some have commented on having less map selection. Usually there are 7-8 and there were 6 this year. But this is the first year I have been able to set them all up simultaneously for an event that I ran at my house as a warm up. I was glad to see Ticalla Sunrise sit out for a year. Seems like it’s been in almost every year.


Neutral: I do not like the glyph of Wannok. It seems to determine the fate of the game. But it is a glyph that helps speed the game up by killing units quicker. So maybe it’s a necessary evil. Sometimes I include Marcu at GenCon for the sole purpose of being able to soak Wannok wounds.


Plus! Only 370 days until GenCon!

[caps]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Partial card scoring is not perfect, but (1) it captures the board state in a way that is normally going to be a better picture of what's happened over the course of the game, and (2) it'll also make mathing easier for the players and the TDs - who have to check it - between rounds.

In my events, it's simple: If you won, regardless of whether it's on time or it's just by eliminating your opponent's pieces, you get the full load of points. In a 500 point format, you get 500 points, even if the game ended on time or your opponent was playing light. Easy to remember. Your opponent gets points for damage done. It's simpler, it does a better & more consistent job of capturing the board state, and it encourages players to keep swinging with what's available at the end, instead of counterintuitive maneuvers like hiding wounded heroes in the back.

We've grumbled with full card scoring in the past and coped with it. I think, though, that - as Xorlof wrote above - it's just untenable, when combined with scoring differential. Scrap both, replace with partial card scoring, and let's do it that way next year.

Yes please.

[vegietarian18]

Another idea for a tiebreaker, that is simpler than partial card scoring, is having order of game completion as the first tiebreaker. For example, first pair of players to finish gets 1 slow point, second pair 2 slow points, all the way to 24 for the final pair of players. Whoever has the fewest slow points wins the tiebreakers.

This would encourage people to bring armies that finish games faster, which is a good thing.

[Dysole]

Originally Posted by vegietarian18

Another idea for a tiebreaker, that is simpler than partial card scoring, is having order of game completion as the first tiebreaker. For example, first pair of players to finish gets 1 slow point, second pair 2 slow points, all the way to 24 for the final pair of players. Whoever has the fewest slow points wins the tiebreakers.

This would encourage people to bring armies that finish games faster, which is a good thing.

You could still get screwed over by having your opponents be the slow ones and you end up near the bottom through no fault of your own. If there was a chess clock sure.

~Dysole, noting that this system also favors faster players more than faster armies

[Dad_Scaper]

Vegie, I'm not a fast player, and I won't become one just because the scoring system encourages it. I applaud the out-of-the-box thinking, though.