HeroScape Color Theory

[Nwojedi]

Originally Posted by teekay

(Grabbed this from wikipedia)

As an artist. This has to be the single dumbest thing i've ever seen. And it pisses me off that wiki is displaying stuff like this and teaching our kids things that will put their heads even farther in thier azz, than it already is. I'd love to see someone try and mix red and green to make yellow. In fact, try and create yellow, out of ANY color that's not yellow. Moronic.


As for the flagbearers. Maybe the 6th general was made back when the flagbearers were released, and hence the individual sale of each. They didn't want to reveal the new general yet, and would allow it to be released later. and would explain why there is 12 to a case, but currently they have triples of 2 of them. Instead of making it a case of 10. Tricky Hasbro...Tricky stuff.

BTW, The new General isnt' yellow. That's my story and i'm sticking to it. But I know hasbro will show it as yellow on the back of packs. I just wish they would show some rhyme or reason for the color choices the way they did. Since they are a hodgepodge of where the colors are taken from.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by Nwojedi

As an artist. This has to be the single dumbest thing i've ever seen. And it pisses me off that wiki is displaying stuff like this and teaching our kids things that will put their heads even farther in thier azz, than it already is. I'd love to see someone try and mix red and green to make yellow. In fact, try and create yellow, out of ANY color that's not yellow. Moronic.


As for the flagbearers. Maybe the 6th general was made back when the flagbearers were released, and hence the individual sale of each. They didn't want to reveal the new general yet, and would allow it to be released later. and would explain why there is 12 to a case, but currently they have triples of 2 of them. Instead of making it a case of 10. Tricky Hasbro...Tricky stuff.

BTW, The new General isnt' yellow. That's my story and i'm sticking to it. But I know hasbro will show it as yellow on the back of packs. I just wish they would show some rhyme or reason for the color choices the way they did. Since they are a hodgepodge of where the colors are taken from.

Actually, NWO, that chart is correct. For projected light combination. That is how a picture tube works-3 colors, red blue and green. What you are thinking of is reflected light Red, Yellow and Blue, our standard primary colors. Fire up PhotoShop, set the color mode to RGB and play with it, you will find that that chart is correct.

[drumtooth]

I betting hasbro will release a new wave of flagbearers giving each general a new flagbearer (different species) and Aquilla will get her first flagbearer.

For example Utgar's new flagbearer will be a marro, Ullar a viper, Einar's a roman and so on.

[Nwojedi]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

Actually, NWO, that chart is correct. For projected light combination. That is how a picture tube works-3 colors, red blue and green. What you are thinking of is reflected light Red, Yellow and Blue, our standard primary colors. Fire up PhotoShop, set the color mode to RGB and play with it, you will find that that chart is correct.

Yes, i know that CRT's use this color pallet to create colors because you have White in every color you produce. But they should come up with a different name for that color pallet, so kids don't get confused. Otherwise we have a bunch of kids running around thinking green is a primary color. It's bad enough they don't know if they are suppose to think there are 8 or 9 planets in the solar system.

I don't think they would release another flagbearer set. IF they did, it wouldn't be with dice again. I think they would release a 6 pack of them. But the case is already perfectly setup to handle 6 different flagbearers. Would be cost effective to just make one more for that line, and then you'd have dice for tha set as well.

[Sisyphus]

I always get pissed when it is taught that Red, Yellow, and Blue are the primary colors. This his how it is taught in public school and unless you are an artist or working with paints this is useless knowledge. However RGB is actually used in the stable-high-paying-jobs real world. To each his own.

[Revdyer]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

I always get pissed when it is taught that Red, Yellow, and Blue are the primary colors. This his how it is taught in public school and unless you are an artist or working with paints this is useless knowledge. However RGB is actually used in the stable-high-paying-jobs real world. To each his own.

Are you saying that artists aren't stable? Naw, you wouldn't say that here. It's just their jobs that aren't stable, right?

[HyperactiveSloth]

Originally Posted by Nwojedi

Yes, i know that CRT's use this color pallet to create colors because you have White in every color you produce. But they should come up with a different name for that color pallet, so kids don't get confused. Otherwise we have a bunch of kids running around thinking green is a primary color. It's bad enough they don't know if they are suppose to think there are 8 or 9 planets in the solar system.

I don't think they would release another flagbearer set. IF they did, it wouldn't be with dice again. I think they would release a 6 pack of them. But the case is already perfectly setup to handle 6 different flagbearers. Would be cost effective to just make one more for that line, and then you'd have dice for tha set as well.

You really should at least try to understand a subject before spouting such strong opinions about it.
"CRT's use this color pallet to create colors because you have White in every color you produce"
This statement is about as far from true as possible. Try actually learning about colors before attempting to "school" others about it. Try looking up the "color cube" demonstrating the interaction between color frequencies (you did know their caused by frequency interactions, right?).

The truth is that Red, Blue and Yellow are only primary colors by tradition. The actual primary colors for subtractive color mixing, used in printed or painted media, is Cyan, Yellow, Magenta. A long time ago people didn't know anything about light frequencies or have precise definitions of the "distance" between colors so Red, Yellow, Blue was close enough, and still works for the most part today. To quote your own point against you, try getting "every color" using just Red Blue and Yellow. Won't happen.

Check out the color cube or whatever their calling it now. It'll make things much more clear since additive (light) and subtractive (pigment) colorings are a very different concept to understand abstractly.

[TheRealQ]

It took me two days to read this thread (limited online time) and it will probably take me another two to respond.

I enjoyed your presentation teekay and can see some validity. It was cool of you to present this to the forum. I have had many theories that I simply keep to myself because I either don't have the time or inclination to present it properly, or I don't have the patience to do proper research or contend with nay-sayers.

I can't remember if I suggested it before but at least internally I speculated that there was more than five generals (the female general thread is only one aspect) and now that it is confirmed I would like to continue the speculation with the idea that there are more than 6 generals.

All the color continuity is nifty in speculation and argument but I fear may play to much to a artist viewpoint and limitation. The wheel looks nice and actually have a connection but I suspect it to go a bit deeper.

Here is a summary of my thoughts. I'll go into detail later.

The basic theme of the game is a twist on Norse mythology. Valkyrie bring fallen heroes to Valhalla to prepare and fight in the "battle of all time" (Ragnarok). The only way into Valhalla is across the Rainbow Bridge. The colors associated with a rainbow are, in order, red, orange, yellow, green, indigo, blue, and violet (yes, that's 7 not 6). Before Aquilla appeared all of the generals fit nicely into the rainbow using their background colors.

Red Utgar, Orange Einar (okay, maybe yellow), Green Ullar, Indigo Vydar, and Blue Jandar. The color arrangement probably has nothing to do with any associations but if it did I would have probably speculated that the range would have covered a level of self centeredness, with the infra(red) being the most self serving and the ultra(violet) the least. Right now we wouldn't have a violet general (unless Aquilla...I need a better look at her cards) so Jandar (blue) would be the highest in that regard and Utgar(red) is definitely out for himself. Vydar is the only one that throws this into question as we still have no true idea as to his purposes.

The border colors I believe are another item all together. At first I would suspect that they were simply picked because they looked nifty with the colors that were already used but there could be a deeper meaning in those as well. Black is usually associated with evil/bad/dark. White with good/light. Brown earth/nature. Grey unknown/shadows/neutral. Purple has in most cultures been relegated to the highest ranks, royal families and such; perhaps it reflects an aire of structure thereby discipline. Yellow is an odd one. In some cultures it is positive as a reflection of sun/warmth/spring or summer but in others it represents age and in others it is negative as a sign of pestilence/sickness. Aquilla is still a big question mark.

As to alliances I once speculated to a pentagram but I shortly dropped this argument when new waves came out that broke the pattern. I do like the idea of a circle though but envision it differently. From Hasbro's site we know that the initial alliances...

more later...have to go and feed the family

[knightdog15]

Originally Posted by Nwojedi

BTW, The new General isnt' yellow. That's my story and i'm sticking to it. But I know hasbro will show it as yellow on the back of packs.

Knightdog's Aquilla Theory
I think Aquilla is teal. Her(?) border is yellow but her background is teal.

All the generals go by their background colors except Einar. On the back of boxes Einar units are shown in purple.
Why? Because they were saving yellow for the sixth general!
If Aquilla's units were shown in teal, they could be more easily confused with Ullar's. So, they went with her secondary color; her border color; yellow!
This made Einar known as the "purple" general.

Now here's something interesting:
For both the good and evil sides they used this color-mixing "equation":

Main General + Solid Ally General = Unsure Ally General




What do you guys think?

[TheRealQ]

bak. Now where was I.

As to alliances I once speculated to a pentagram but I shortly dropped this argument when new waves came out that broke the pattern. I do like the idea of a circle though but envision it differently. From Hasbro's site we know that the initial alliances were Jandar/Ullar vs Utgar/Einar/Vydar. From the webisodes preluding to the SotM we know that Vydar is going to ally with Jandar. Using only this info I would place the original 5 generals as a circle starting with Jandar, then Ullar, then Einar, then Utgar, then Vydar. The reason I place Vydar directly adjacent to both Jandar and Utgar is two-fold. One, the alliance in the webisodes doesn't show Ullar troops so Ullar shouldn't be between Vydar and Jandar as a go-between. Second, the Soulborg connection.

With this alternate circle in mind, Aquilla's placement becomes questionable. She could be placed between Utgar and Vydar thus increasing the space between the two. Although I think she is a better fit between Ullar and Einar. (at least for now). Placed there she has space between herself and Jandar and Ullar. Although if parallel attributes are to be drawn from neighbors this shifts her potential character traits greatly. Between Einar and Ullar you would think that she would have a mix between Fantasy and Historical (the figures produced so far appear to support this...but it is only 3 units). This also gives a good General choice for the human rebels of the Soulborg prison planet (notice that neither of the adjacent Generals have Soulborgs) who might easily partner with the Rebellious gladiators of Einar. In addition to wild fantastic creatures she could have various tribal groups based out of history that are closer to nature (and more superstitious thus fantastic) than "civilized" people.

Well, I guess that's my penny's worth. I'm sure I left holes but it was cohesive in my head before I began to type it out. For the next 24-72 hours I will probably believe what I wrote but be prepared for my brain to go tangent with whatever is learned from GenCon.

[HyperactiveSloth]

Hmmm, there is quite a bit of validity to TheRealQ's arrangement of the circle. Almost like an overlapping of boundaries.

...........Jandar..........
Ullar................Vydar
................................
Aquilla..............Utgar
............Einar...........

You can definitely see some similarities in the types of units comprising adjacent armies in that arrangement.

Of course, personally, I don't think there's one "right" arrangement of Generals. I think it depends on what aspect you're looking at it from.

As far as color goes, I think that bee might be on to something with the RGB/CMY arrangement as opposed to the primary/secondary arrangement, but I say that mostly because of the orange does not equal grey thing.

Overall, though, teekay's analysis of the multiple facets involved probably is the evaluation most relevant to actual game development. I think that in the most technical of terms that it does the most to account for the likely truth that the designers did not purposely assign certain colors and related properties to the Generals, but rather that they are the result of aesthetic and psychological factors as well as conscious marketing. His would definitely be the most comprehensive and multi-faceted view.

[Eclipse]

I've always arranged them in a straight line according to my general opinion on alignment:



Einar's rapid separation from Utgar's camp and the addition of Aquilla who doesn't really fit anywhere yet changes things a bit. With 6, the circle definitely seems to be the way to go. The question is just a matter of who sits between who. It will really depend on how Aquilla relates to the other generals, and whether she's a force for good or evil.