Mad_wookiee's Maps - Manticore added 6/28/2013

[mad_wookiee]

Originally Posted by tom

Cool looking map! I especially like the rules for the Glyph of Nicholas. That seems like a great way to get multiple treasure glyphs into the game.

Quick question, does it use normal snow and ice?

Thanks! Yep, normal snow & ice.

[S1R_ART0R1US]

Looks like a great map. The scenario rules are (were?) great for Christmas. Nice work!

[mad_wookiee]

This one's been in the works for a long time but in honesty I haven't had as much time to test it as I'd like. My house just went back on the market so I'm trying to be reasonable about the amount of 'scape time that I'm getting at home in the next few months and it ain't looking good. So enjoy and as always I'm quite interested in feedback from anyone who tries it - I wanted to go in a different direction from how I've used VW in the past.

I wanted to name this Eyjafjallajökull but it wouldn't fit on the front page.

Fenris - added 2/7/2011


Requires 1 BftU, 1 VW and 1 TT. Designed for normal snow and slippery ice.

[Dad_Scaper]

Looks like another good one, mad_wookiee. Am I guessing correctly normal snow and normal ice? I like the BftU and TT together, and with all the shadow and LoS blockers this looks like one I'd like to play on. I'm not Matthias, but looking back on my brief career in this game I do like the melee units...

I think we may have to play with glyphs at our next event, they seem to bring the most out in all these great maps.

Did you notice you will be represented x3 on 2/26?

[killercactus]

I really like the look of this map, mw. Do you think the Treasure Glyphs are actually enough to get heroes to go over to the sides of the map, though?

[mad_wookiee]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Looks like another good one, mad_wookiee. Am I guessing correctly normal snow and normal ice? I like the BftU and TT together, and with all the shadow and LoS blockers this looks like one I'd like to play on. I'm not Matthias, but looking back on my brief career in this game I do like the melee units...

It's actually normal snow and slippery ice. It's on the build instructions but I should probably add it to the descriptions. The ice is used sparingly as a result - primarily on the high points and in a few strategic spots where I needed to balance out movement.

I think we may have to play with glyphs at our next event, they seem to bring the most out in all these great maps.

Did you notice you will be represented x3 on 2/26?

I did notice that - thanks! Wish I could be there - February is unusually busy for us though. I think the next event I'll make it to is probably the one I'm running in March, unfortunately. That reminds me - I need to get the event thread up for that.

Originally Posted by killercactus

I really like the look of this map, mw. Do you think the Treasure Glyphs are actually enough to get heroes to go over to the sides of the map, though?

I actually forgot that the pic shows treasure glyphs - I swapped out the gif files on my desktop so all unknown glyphs show as treasure. I think it will work with either treasure or normal glyphs, though - it's not that wide of a map and some of the highest points are at the sides. The lava can also tend to shunt movement in that direction, depending on the army. I'd be interested to hear other opinions though. I want so badly to like treasure glyphs but I just think they often aren't powerful enough to draw heroes out, no matter the map.

[Kaemon Awasome]

Originally Posted by mad_wookiee

I want so badly to like treasure glyphs but I just think they often aren't powerful enough to draw heroes out, no matter the map.

A few suggestions:

1. Put the treasure glyphs face up - no trap, no wasted turn, heroes will come
2. It may help to designate a pool of the stronger glyphs to choose from for the random glyph locations. That way you can still have a trap, but it and the location of the glyph are outweighed by the glyph's possible potency. E.g. I think the healing glyph is very powerful, especially for heroes like Q9 or Nilfheim (which are used regularly). It would also entice opposing players to keep a healing glyph away from those heroes.
3. Try using idea #2 in conjunction with the limitations of the map. E.g. on this map, the move glyph might be very valuable, so put it in the pool. A defense glyph on a map with lot's of LOS blockers, might be desirable for Raelin armies that are worried about positioning. Those might not be best examples, but I think you get what I'm saying.

I.e. Designate which glyphs to randomly choose from in order to maximize the likelihood that someone will want them.

[tom]

Originally Posted by mad_wookiee

Fenris - added 2/7/2011


Requires 1 BftU, 1 VW and 1 TT. Designed for normal snow and slippery ice.

This is a great looking map Mad_wookiee! I really like your use of the slippery ice to make the high ground less accessible. Its also good to see a map with lava that isn't placed on all of the high spots. I would have definitely kept the name Eyjafjallajökull though. Hopefully we will see it used on March 19th.

[NecroBlade]

Fenris looks very well designed - downloaded!

[TheEpicLlama]

Cool map. How about instead of the treasure glyphs have one treasure glyph and one normal one.

[mad_wookiee]

Originally Posted by Kaemon Awasome

A few suggestions:

1. Put the treasure glyphs face up - no trap, no wasted turn, heroes will come
2. It may help to designate a pool of the stronger glyphs to choose from for the random glyph locations. That way you can still have a trap, but it and the location of the glyph are outweighed by the glyph's possible potency. E.g. I think the healing glyph is very powerful, especially for heroes like Q9 or Nilfheim (which are used regularly). It would also entice opposing players to keep a healing glyph away from those heroes.
3. Try using idea #2 in conjunction with the limitations of the map. E.g. on this map, the move glyph might be very valuable, so put it in the pool. A defense glyph on a map with lot's of LOS blockers, might be desirable for Raelin armies that are worried about positioning. Those might not be best examples, but I think you get what I'm saying.

I.e. Designate which glyphs to randomly choose from in order to maximize the likelihood that someone will want them.

I think the bottom line is that treasure glyphs aren't as effective at creating interesting map features as standard glyphs are. Glyphs should, in my opinion, create points of tension on a map. That can mean drawing figures to areas of a map that might otherwise see little action - Turret Rocks and Swamp Thing, for example - or it can mean creating tough decisions for a player, like I tried to do with Wannok on Blindgate. Treasure glyphs have two problems: they aren't, except for perhaps a few, strong enough to entice players into areas that are otherwise strategically weak, and once they've been picked up, there isn't any longer a reason for a player to concentrate forces in that area. Traps are a non-starter for me on competitive maps, because they compound the problem. And in the case of even the strongest treasure glyphs, I'd almost always rather have height. There are situational exceptions but as a general rule I think it's fair.

What I tried to do here was provide other reasons for a player to push armies to the sides, with the glyphs being a nice but not necessary feature. They're spaced such that they're not unbalanced if standard glyphs are used, but there's enough reason to go up the sides that treasure glyphs don't unbalance the map.

At some point I'd like to try something goofy with T-glyphs, like start each player with a Bracers of Teleportation in the start zone or something like that, but that's a very different way of using them than I think we're used to seeing.

Originally Posted by tom

Hopefully we will see it used on March 19th.

That's the plan.

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

Fenris looks very well designed - downloaded!

Originally Posted by TheEpicLlama

Cool map. How about instead of the treasure glyphs have one treasure glyph and one normal one.

Actually, I wouldn't try that on this map. I'd go with either one or the other, mostly for the reasons I listed above. Good thought for a different design though. The build instructions actually specify that either normal, power-side down glyphs or power-side up treasure glyphs should be used.

[Kaemon Awasome]

Originally Posted by mad_wookiee

I think the bottom line is that treasure glyphs aren't as effective at creating interesting map features as standard glyphs are. Glyphs should, in my opinion, create points of tension on a map. That can mean drawing figures to areas of a map that might otherwise see little action - Turret Rocks and Swamp Thing, for example - or it can mean creating tough decisions for a player, like I tried to do with Wannok on Blindgate. Treasure glyphs have two problems: they aren't, except for perhaps a few, strong enough to entice players into areas that are otherwise strategically weak, and once they've been picked up, there isn't any longer a reason for a player to concentrate forces in that area. Traps are a non-starter for me on competitive maps, because they compound the problem. And in the case of even the strongest treasure glyphs, I'd almost always rather have height. There are situational exceptions but as a general rule I think it's fair.

What I tried to do here was provide other reasons for a player to push armies to the sides, with the glyphs being a nice but not necessary feature. They're spaced such that they're not unbalanced if standard glyphs are used, but there's enough reason to go up the sides that treasure glyphs don't unbalance the map.

At some point I'd like to try something goofy with T-glyphs, like start each player with a Bracers of Teleportation in the start zone or something like that, but that's a very different way of using them than I think we're used to seeing.

Agreed. In regards to the bold lines, there are a lot of regular glyphs that aren't used by and large in tournament type settings. So if there is only 3-4 treasure glyphs that get used in mapmaking as glyphs intended for points of tension on the map I don't think there's anything wrong with that. That would be a situation, where if you wanted to use treasure glyphs (with a corresponding thematic trap) then you would need to design the map in such a way that is an actual benefit to have them.

This is actually why I put treasure glyphs and regular glyphs on my map Aquilla's Spring. What I should have done, however, was switch the places of the Treasure and regular glyphs, to get people an incentive to deal with the middle of the map, and also incentive to pause before taking height with their heroes on the edges. (I would correct this, and have posted many more maps by now, if I had the capability to run the software.)

One other incentive, which I played around with, was to spring a trap that affects the entire board. Or, that affects the hero on the trap as well as one of your opponent's. That way people may also go for the glyph in order to spring a trap.