TeamFortresScape - into the Testing Phase

[whitestuff]

I haven't been back here in a while (RealLifetm gets so busy at times...) but thanks you to everyone for your comments.

Originally Posted by Camereeno

These suck.

Sad to see someone of this caliber gone.

Originally Posted by yagyuninja

Whitestuff, cool idea and beautiful cards. I don't know what double jump does, though.

My idea was to try and emulate the Scout's ability to jump higher than everyone else while on the move. It is a bit like the Monks Jump but it is only for 9 levels and it doesn't reduce the total number of spaces that a figure can move. Perhaps the ability needs to be rewritten, suggestions anyone?

Originally Posted by yagyuninja

Also, those specials are pretty hardcore...I'm thinking this guy is in the 180 point range? Maybe more, since we know that movement after attacking (ala silver surfer) is extremely powerful in this game.

I haven't given these cards a point value as I thought that the game would work by choosing the number of players on each side, as opposed to a point value for each team. Players could then change dead characters for other types at the end of each round. This would make teams dynamic and fluid throughout the game.

Originally Posted by Uprising

as a fan of the Orange Box I think these customs rock

Thanks

Originally Posted by DarkDino

those cards are very well done. They look great, and flow together excellently. Keep up the good work, got a spy on the way now?

I think the Demoman will be next as I've been thinking about how he could work within the game.

Originally Posted by Velenne

Two of my very most favoritest things: TF2 and Scape! Why didnt I think of this?

I only did because I was spending all my usual custom making time playing TF2.

Originally Posted by Velenne

Oh right. Anywho, this is great and I'd love to see it fully fleshed out. One question: what mini's are you thinking of using?

This is something that I haven't been spending much time on (too much TF2 - research I'm calling it ) but I will keep chipping away at it. As for minis... I haven't got a clue. I've never tried painting or sculpting or anything to do with minis. I will probably depend on proxies unless something comes along.

Originally Posted by Miniature Geek

Must admit I've never played those games, but the idea of someone beating someone to death with a baseball bat seems like a lot of fun.

It is most enjoyable indeed

I'll post up the demoman as soon as he is done.

Thanks for the comments everyone. Keep 'em up

[whitestuff]

Originally Posted by Izner

How about those baseball sports clix figures? They've got about the right shape, would just need a gun in one hand and a modified color scheme. :P

I haven't seen these but they sound like they'd be worth having a look at.

[whitestuff]

So here we have the Demoman...

[Revdyer]

Whitestuff, I know that this is a very small matter, but I really like the fonts you have chosen for the cards. They're very attractive and easy to read, which is much appreciated by these old eyes.

[Velenne]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

Whitestuff, I know that this is a very small matter, but I really like the fonts you have chosen for the cards. They're very attractive and easy to read, which is much appreciated by these old eyes.

They're lifted straight from the TF2 game, Rev. That's part of why I'm so keen on this so far- whitestuff has a knack for these cards. Very slick.

Ok here's some feedback so far:

(1) Are you wanting these guys to die very quickly? Some of these specials are very powerful. I can understand if you do, because TF is like that- Over the top on everything!! How about a special scenario rule: "Destroyed units reappear in their starting zone at the start of the subsequent round".

(2) Another scenario idea: How about using all 9 TF2 characters, 9 starting zone spaces, and 3 sets of order markers? You'd need a special caveat of "A given numbered order marker cannot be placed on the same card more than once." This keeps you from putting all 3 of your 1's on the Scout, for example. After that, you and your opponent would roll init like normal and alternate playing all 3 of your 1's in any order, then 2's, then 3's.

(3) The Scout. I'd say give him 2 Defense and Disengage. Less dice on Batter Up too- their bats aren't that beefy, but I like the extra movement on it. What if you gave the Scatter Gun a range of 5, attack of 2, but said that for every space closer than 5 his target is, he gets to roll an additional attack dice? For clarity, I'd rewrite Double Jump to say the same thing as the Deathreaver's Climb x2 ability. That should allow him to circumvent ruins and make it up castle walls without battlements.

(4) The Demo. His primary attack is the grenade launcher anyway so I'd change the text to simply say "When making a normal attack, the Demoman does not require line on sight." and change his range to 5. I love the Sticky Bomb ability. You may have run out of room, but something in the Sticky Bomb Jump needs to say that he returns the detonated marker back to his card.

I'll leave it at that and see if we're on the same page on the some of this stuff before offering up ideas on the rest of the characters. Again, awesome idea!

[whitestuff]

Originally Posted by Velenne

They're lifted straight from the TF2 game, Rev. That's part of why I'm so keen on this so far- whitestuff has a knack for these cards. Very slick.

Thanks guys. Like Velenne said, I can't take credit for the fonts. I figure that Valve pays buckets of cash to designers so why not use their great work
As for the cards, once the template was finished, it is all pretty plain sailing. The hardest part now is to find pictures of each of the characters in both colours. I've had to play the game just to get screenshots (well, that's what I tell myself...:P)

Now on the the comments, which is the exciting part

Originally Posted by Velenne

(1) Are you wanting these guys to die very quickly? Some of these specials are very powerful. I can understand if you do, because TF is like that- Over the top on everything!! How about a special scenario rule: "Destroyed units reappear in their starting zone at the start of the subsequent round".

Yes. I wanted to reproduce that feeling of mass carnage. Having destroyed units reappear at the beginning of new rounds is exactly what I was thinking. I also want the ability to change the line-up as the game progresses. Swap out a dead Heavy for a quicker Scout if you have to chase down someone with your intel or whatever.

Originally Posted by Velenne

(2) Another scenario idea: How about using all 9 TF2 characters, 9 starting zone spaces, and 3 sets of order markers? You'd need a special caveat of "A given numbered order marker cannot be placed on the same card more than once." This keeps you from putting all 3 of your 1's on the Scout, for example. After that, you and your opponent would roll init like normal and alternate playing all 3 of your 1's in any order, then 2's, then 3's.

Until it gets play-tested it is hard to imagine how many figures could be out on the boards at once. I guess it would depend on the map. Even if you can't fit all of the figures at once the idea of being able to swap out dead characters would see them all get a rotation. Your idea about the 3 sets of order markers is great I was initially thinking about having a set number of moves that could be divvied among the whole team but as you point out that might lead to single figure abuse. Your idea is perfect.

Originally Posted by Velenne

(3) The Scout. I'd say give him 2 Defense and Disengage. Less dice on Batter Up too- their bats aren't that beefy, but I like the extra movement on it. What if you gave the Scatter Gun a range of 5, attack of 2, but said that for every space closer than 5 his target is, he gets to roll an additional attack dice? For clarity, I'd rewrite Double Jump to say the same thing as the Deathreaver's Climb x2 ability. That should allow him to circumvent ruins and make it up castle walls without battlements.

I made the Scout almost like a proof of concept, to see if I could think of a way to have the essence of the character distilled into a turn-based mechanic (I am still not sure how to approach the Spy for example). I posted them just for this reason, to get feedback etc. I think now that you are right about the lower defense and the reworked scattergun is better as well. I will need to go back and check the Reavers card to see how it is worded (I did feel that the Double Jump was off). I also think that the distance after the Batter Up should be reduced (probably to 4).

Originally Posted by Velenne

(4) The Demo. His primary attack is the grenade launcher anyway so I'd change the text to simply say "When making a normal attack, the Demoman does not require line on sight." and change his range to 5. I love the Sticky Bomb ability. You may have run out of room, but something in the Sticky Bomb Jump needs to say that he returns the detonated marker back to his card.

I made his range 1 as homage to his 'Scrumpy' bottle. The Demoman is unusual in TF2 as he has no direct line weapon and I wanted to portray that somehow. As for the Sticky Bomb ability - man - it way a bugger to fit on the card, and I'm still not convinced that it makes enough sense (Any suggestions there would be welcome...) I know what you are talking about in regards to the Sticky Bomb Jump, I initially had it in the text, but to fit it on is a problem. I'm not sure what to do about that one


Next up I think will be, the Pyro... 'Mphphnphhh!'

[Revdyer]

As to the fonts...while you may not be able to take credit for creation, you still get bonus points for recognizing a great thing when you see it.

[whitestuff]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

As to the fonts...while you may not be able to take credit for creation, you still get bonus points for recognizing a great thing when you see it.

Bonus points? ROCK ON

[yagyuninja]

Originally Posted by whitestuff

I haven't been back here in a while (RealLifetm gets so busy at times...) but thanks you to everyone for your comments.

My idea was to try and emulate the Scout's ability to jump higher than everyone else while on the move. It is a bit like the Monks Jump but it is only for 9 levels and it doesn't reduce the total number of spaces that a figure can move. Perhaps the ability needs to be rewritten, suggestions anyone?

That makes sense, I guess I missed the "while moving" part of the ability. I just read over real fast thinking it was "after moving."

Originally Posted by whitestuff

I haven't given these cards a point value as I thought that the game would work by choosing the number of players on each side, as opposed to a point value for each team. Players could then change dead characters for other types at the end of each round. This would make teams dynamic and fluid throughout the game.

Awesome idea! Like I said before, really neat concepts you're working on.

[Velenne]

As great as all the melée weapons are in tf2, trying to incorporate them into all 9 characters may be cumbersome. You might be better off sticking to the main themes and abilities of each. As we've seen, this can be enough of a headache in and of itself!

The second sentence of the Sticky Bomb text can be omitted since it's a special attack anyway. It would always be done after moving. Limit his usage to one bomb per activation. This way he's giving up his attack to place the bomb but could pay off with a 16-die attack roll! Good ole ridiculous TF2.

[Velenne]

Originally Posted by whitestuff

I made the Scout almost like a proof of concept, to see if I could think of a way to have the essence of the character distilled into a turn-based mechanic (I am still not sure how to approach the Spy for example). I posted them just for this reason, to get feedback etc. I think now that you are right about the lower defense and the reworked scattergun is better as well. I will need to go back and check the Reavers card to see how it is worded (I did feel that the Double Jump was off). I also think that the distance after the Batter Up should be reduced (probably to 4).

Originally Posted by Deathreaver's Card

Climb X2: When moving up or down levels of terrain, Deathreavers may double their Height.

Simple and straight-forward. I'm with you on the Batter Up thing as well- 12 move is enough. How do you feel about lowering the attack as well? Maybe 4?

Originally Posted by whitestuff

I made his range 1 as homage to his 'Scrumpy' bottle. The Demoman is unusual in TF2 as he has no direct line weapon and I wanted to portray that somehow. As for the Sticky Bomb ability - man - it way a bugger to fit on the card, and I'm still not convinced that it makes enough sense (Any suggestions there would be welcome...) I know what you are talking about in regards to the Sticky Bomb Jump, I initially had it in the text, but to fit it on is a problem. I'm not sure what to do about that one

His bottle isn't really an integral part of what he does. It's hilarious in the game, but that doesn't translate to mini's very well. How about making his base attack 3, range 4, and put this in his text box: "Grenade Launcher - The Demoman does not require line of sight to attack his opponent. However if he does have line of sight, he may roll 2 extra attack dice and add 2 to his range." This would reflect how hard it is to bounce those (&%^$ things around corners and actually hit people.

The problem with the Sticky Bomb as written is that they can only be detonated on his turn. Well who's gonna be stupid enough to end their turn next to a bunch of Stickies? I know that when I play Demo, I have to hunker down and wait for some sucker to come traipsing by. What if you said,

"Sticky Bomb - The Demoman starts the game with a Sticky Bomb marker on this card. Instead of attacking, place the marker on any unoccupied tile within 6 clear sight spaces with no enemy figures adjacent to it. Until the Demoman's next turn, he may roll 8 attack dice once against any enemy figure that steps on or adjacent to this tile. After rolling these dice or at the beginning of his next turn, whichever comes first, return the Sticky Bomb marker to this card."

That's still less text than what's on there right now.

Originally Posted by whitestuff

Next up I think will be, the Pyro... 'Mphphnphhh!'

"Mmph mnhmphnnH!"
(Translation: I'd love to join in this creative process if you're willing to share it.)

You could save some time by posting your ideas before making them into cards and we could hash it out. What do you think?

[Agent Minivann]

When I first saw this I was wondering if there was some sort of Blood Bowl meets Baseball thing. TF2 sounds much more interesting.

My comments/recommendations:
Should it say RED and BLU under the unit names? They look good, but the cards look a little bare without the faction names.

I don't know the game, but would they be better as common heroes to field more than one in an army?