SPOILER TALK: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Aldin

"shot for shot remake"

I'm not aiming this at you Aldin, but you just triggered this. To use another movie to help with this,

[Son of Arathorn]

My only gripe in the "remake" argument is that they used another battle station shaped like an orb capable of supreme destruction. There are other forms that a super-weapon or threat to the galaxy can take, and I want to see more of them. But that's not to say that repetition was a problem in the original trilogy, nor is it a huge deal here in episode 7. Here's my take:

Episode IV- the Death Star is played straight, the Empire plans to use it as a way to demonstrate their power and keep star systems in line, while allowing them to eradicate the Alliance. Nice 'n simple.

Episode VI- the second Death Star is at first played straight, but then we realize it's meant to be a trap for the Rebellion, who surely won't be able to resist attacking it once they realize it's not operational and that the Emperor is onboard. So while the object is the same, the method is not. Good subversion.

Episode VII- Starkiller Base is much more powerful than the Death Star, awe-inspiring in its scale and mechanic. Now instead of being used as a weapon of fear or a trap, it's being used for its raw destructive power to wipe out the Republic- which it does. Destroyed shortly thereafter, its role in the plot (I suspect) is to generate a whole lot of chaos in the galaxy as the only (I assume stable) government is blown to smithereens.

When you think about it, they aren't recycling plot, they're recycling a rough shape and a mechanic. But the plot changes each time. Pretty cool, IMO.

[vegietarian18]

I honestly don't get the criticisms of Kylo as a villain. He was different, and he had depth. Other Star Wars villains were just a menacing, stand around and be evil type, but Kylo had motivations and flaws. I think he is a better character than Vader; what prequel Anakin should have been. His temptation towards light is a really cool idea. I'm happy that he will be around for the whole trilogy most likely, in good or evil form.

[Tornado]

I would have loved to see Lee Pace as Kylo but he is a bit old for the role.

[Aldin]

I agree with veggie about Kylo Ren. Particularly the concept that it feels like we're getting with Kylo Ren what we thought we would get with Anakin in the prequels - an interesting, nuanced character that feels like an actual human being making the types of choices human beings make. He so clearly wants to be Vader - powerful, respected, feared - a cypher and a symbol. At the same time, he so clearly wants to be validated and understood - taking off his mask to address Rey, asking his father to "help" him make a difficult decision. A complex and interesting villain - and one to be feared.

~Aldin, who does wish the actor looked a bit more like we might expect Han and Leia's son to look

[Dysole]

I think I was expecting something different and so he came across weaker than I expected. I also recognize that he has more movies to flesh himself out but I don't think I took him as seriously once I saw his face. I look forward to more but my initial impressions of Kylo were "I would've liked better." I'll admit it might be that he evokes Anakin's Episode II character who I hated. I really get a Prince Zuko vibe from him (for those familiar with the Avatar universe) and if they make his arc as compelling as Zuko's I'll be satisfied.

~Dysole, who really felt the Zuko stuff after seeing his face since he bore a resemblance to the Shyamalan version of Zuko

[quozl]

Missed opportunity on the bridge when Han and Kylo meet.

Han, right before falling: "I love you."

Kylo, right after Han falls: "I know."

[Jim]

Originally Posted by quozl

Missed opportunity on the bridge when Han and Kylo meet.

Han, right before falling: "I love you."

Kylo, right after Han falls: "I know."

I'm glad they didn't do that. There is a fine line between just the right amount of self-reference and too much. To me, that would have been too much.

[vegietarian18]

Originally Posted by Dysole

I also recognize that he has more movies to flesh himself out but I don't think I took him as seriously once I saw his face.

That's part of his character though. He doesn't naturally have the classic intimidating Sith look, so he wears the mask so he can look and sound like Vader. You can see him flustered when Hux walks in as he is speaking unmasked to Snoke; he isn't comfortable without it. I think it's a neat spin on things.

[kevindola]

I enjoyed the film very much.

Put me in the camp of those who think that a flawed, unsure of Kylo Ren is intriguing as a villain and not a liability. Just something different. Clearly Scone (as I have taken to calling him) is going to 'complete his training' and we'll see additional character development out of him. I think it is good that we will see the progression for him.

Originally Posted by theaveragefan

I might get some flak for this, but I thought Kylo Ren was weak in this movie. Early on he was pretty BA, menacing and dark similar to Darth Vader, but different enough for it to work (he was much less calculating, more prone to bouts of rage). However, when he took off his mask to show the beautiful flawless pretty boy underneath, things started going downhill. He reminded me a lot of the Arkham Knight from the Batman games: a supposedly awesome and bad*ss leader who's really more of a whiner when it comes down to it. His extremely vague ways to the Dark Side and emo teenager face reminded me more of Hayden Christensen than I'd like to admit (although he is a big Vader fan so maybe it makes sense).

So i think TAF is accurate, I just don't see it as a let down at all. I think his character is intriguing and (stealing from Vegie's post) his internal struggle with that spark of light still residing in him is an interesting corollary to what his grandfather dealt with. His force mind reading was new (I was hoping he would drop to his knees as a backlash effect with his failed reading of Rey), and he seemed to have a high mastery of the force hold.

I agree that his struggle early with Fin and then with Rey are curious. Obviously he had an earlier injury to some extent (knock knock knock crowbow blast, knock knock knock crossbow blast, knock knock knock crossbow blast), but that sequence along with her vision caused by Luke's lightsaber made me think she may have had some training her in past somehow that explains her latent abilities (counterpoint! Her vision showed her left on the planet at a very young age). I also think his temper tantrums cause him to lose focus and be sloppy/arrogant with his actions/attacks.

Ok, that's enough for now. I will say that from an actor perspective I had a tough time with Adam Driver not due to his acting or even his appearance, but because my wife is a fan of the HBO series GIRLS which he is the main male lead in. His role there is pretty graphic and so it was quite a tough juxtaposition for me seeing him here. Adam Driver is set to host the next new SNL in January which should be very entertaining.

[TheAverageFan]

Originally Posted by vegietarian18

That's part of his character though. He doesn't naturally have the classic intimidating Sith look, so he wears the mask so he can look and sound like Vader. You can see him flustered when Hux walks in as he is speaking unmasked to Snoke; he isn't comfortable without it. I think it's a neat spin on things.

My brother did have in interesting theory that Kylo Ren seems to become weaker in the scenes where he doesn't have his mask on, like hiding behind it boosts his confidence.

While I would've liked him to be stronger in this film, I imagine they will improve upon him in the subsequent movies, and I look forward to seeing his complete training.

I'm also curious to see if they'll try to bring him to the light side, since it'll be hard to convince audiences to like the guy who killed their favorite Star Wars character.

~TAF

[Aldin]

So... what if Pharasma is Finn's mom? It would actually go a long way toward explaining her character arc (what little there was of it).

~Aldin, assuming she survived somehow and will be seen again in VIII