Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

[Elstree]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

Mine fit. And, of course, "dragon perch" is a term in long use that also refers to the Airborne Elite.

I agree, dragon perches are a well-known problem.

[Riggler]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

Hi, GeneralRolando.

I would not presume to speak for Riggler (or anyone else, for that matter), but when I was on the board of BoV judges, I would have said "No" to reviewing your Tower of Torment for one simple but important reason: it has those glaring dragon perchs. The towers are just too inviting and too unbalancing as they stand. That's just my take, of course, and at this point is not worth very much at all.

GeneralRolando,

It's best I leave it "What he said." And by "he" I mean the good Rev. There USED to be a line in the guidelines...something about a wet noodle...maybe someone can dig it up.

[GeneralRolando]

Okay, that's all fine and dandy. I see what you mean. If I offset them would there be anything else keeping it from BOVness?

[JC McMinis]

Originally Posted by nyys

The Island by jcmcminis

The first thing that scares me about this map when I look at it is the footprint, I'm not quite sure this will fit on a standard tournament table.

With the river stopping most melee troops cold, they'll all be sitting sucks as they attempt to cross giving any ranged troops on the other side height and an easy shot. No to review.

I didnt think about size when I submitted it. Now that I think about it, the map did almost fill my kitchen table. Thanks for the input and I will keep this in mind for my next submission.

[Mooseman]

Originally Posted by GeneralRolando

Okay, that's all fine and dandy. I see what you mean. If I offset them would there be anything else keeping it from BOVness?

I'm not a judge, but here's some things I see.

•The starting zones are imbalanced. Not only is green closer to the towers, it is much wider and shallower than purple, meaning larger armies will have a much easier time getting into the fray.

•There is no road and significant climbing, meaning melee troops will have a very hard time. Range will overwhelmingly dominate.

•There is nothing to draw players off the hill. The lower ground is clogged up by the ruins and basically useless. All the play will revolve around the hill, making tactical options limited.

This isn't meant to rag on you, just answer your question as honestly as possible. If you looking for suggestions to prove your map, I would suggest rearranging the start zones, try to make them both similar in their with/depth ratio. If you move the small ruin out of its current spot (maybe to the top of the plateu), add a road along the lower ground, and add a glyph, you could make the lower ground more strategically viable.

[dok]

He may not be a BoV judge, but he's a BoV cartographer for a reason.

The only thing I really have to add to what Mooseman said is that, in addition to having a shallower layout, the blue/green startzone has a much shorter path to the plateau. The purple startzone has to go around or through the water to reach the high ground.

As far as the dragon perches go, I think one of the two towers has a battlement layout that will restrict most dragons, but the other would allow every dragon (with the probable exception of Nilfheim) to roost.

[GeneralRolando]

Originally Posted by Mooseman

•The starting zones are imbalanced. Not only is green closer to the towers, it is much wider and shallower than purple, meaning larger armies will have a much easier time getting into the fray.

The reason the start zones are imbalenced is because cyan has a very small area to get figures onto the upper levels causing a funnel effect. When I played on that side I found it very difficult to base my army around getting the top because things could manuver easily. If he has a lot of figures the ground levels were the best way to lock up purple. Cyan also has an easy to get to tower at his disposal to balence this. Purple has a much easier to get through way to the top therefor allowing him to take a much larger army but he is further away from a two hex tower.

Originally Posted by Mooseman

•There is no road and significant climbing, meaning melee troops will have a very hard time. Range will overwhelmingly dominate.

Range indeed was a key point on this map but in most cases there was not a situation where the melee couldn't hide causing the range to move thus putting him in more danger. The most powerful range that I found were perhaps Protectors of Ullar or Krav Maga. This map is shorter compared to many and there arn't many restrictions keeping melee off the bottom level. Melee became for me a way to keep my opponents army condensed and easy to fight.

Originally Posted by Mooseman

•There is nothing to draw players off the hill. The lower ground is clogged up by the ruins and basically useless. All the play will revolve around the hill, making tactical options limited.

The top most certainly is the main subject of this map but i don't know why but in the image above there are supposed to be battlements along the edges of the cliffs and a defense glyph on the small little rise to the right of purple.

I appreciate much of your imput and respect your cartographer title but I think you will agree with me that this is a rather well balenced map if you play on it once or twice 400-550 points best. Though, I cannot fight against the rule of the official judges so i'll be leaving to them. Plus my opinion is just that and it will differ from other people.

The purple startzone has to go around or through the water to reach the high ground.

Not quite sure what your sayin Dok. With the battlements in place the Cyan has a harder time getting to the top than purple. Thats why I have Cyan closer to a tower.

[Dignan]

Hey guys, let's try to keep this on track. If you want to debate the merits of a given map at length, please do so on that map's thread, not here. Thanks.

[Kahrma]

Maps currently being reviewed:

Fossil by Rÿchean

My first impression of this map, was “cool – an asymmetrical map using SotM”.

I didn’t realize upon first glance how little asymmetry there is here. The hive juts out a bit more than the 15-high tree, filling what would be water spaces on the opposite side of the map. Otherwise, both sides are identical. Despite such symmetry, the hive and the 15-high tree give each side of the map a very different look.

Like “Elswin Plateau”, the start zones here are wide and shallow, spreading swarm armies thin and rewarding careful placement of key figures.

Glyph access is roughly equal, save for a single-hex advantage when advancing on the glyph space to each start zone’s right. Moving the two forward start zone spaces proves difficult however, as these spaces provide the only legal place to situate a Hive as part of one’s army. The glyphs are well placed to draw action to otherwise uninviting areas of the map.

The Hive and trees are well-placed as LoS blockers, and tended to divide the center of the map into three distinct zones. Two cleverly placed water tiles, paired with the stone walls, seemed to direct foot traffic to the right. Road tiles reach all of the important areas of the map, though (being only a single hex wide) they are easily blocked. I saw very few figures able to take advantage of the movement bonus offered by the road tiles. I felt like “Fossil” played a bit larger than its compact footprint would suggest.

Who does well here? Well, fliers for one. Fliers can ignore the walls and water tiles which slow down ground-bound sloggers, as well as the hive and 15-tree which divide the center of the map. Melee benefit from prime placement of the trees and hive. Double-space figures find plenty of places to roost – there were no issues in getting the big boys across the map. Small armies will find fewer issues with the wide, shallow start zone.

Though my initial impressions were a bit off, I’m still plenty impressed by “Fossil”. This is the best effort I’ve seen to date using SotM and RttFF. Congrats, Rÿchean - my vote is Yes to record “Fossil” among the Battlefields of Valhalla!

[dok]

Congrats on your second BoV map, Rÿchean!

I wonder which map Kahrma will cast the deciding vote on next?

[Eirikr]

He has a lot of power, this 'Kahrma'.

[1Mmirg]

Glad to see Fossil join the BOV. I agree with Kahrma's point that it is a little map that plays bigger than it seems. Congrats, Rÿchean!