Point Adjustments for Tourney Play

[Sweetcurse]

Since I started attending tournaments I noticed that certain units simply don’t work in that format. I used to say that they simply sucked, and that may be the case with some, but I think that much of the problem is that HS is designed in a way that it’s more balanced when playing with the draft or in scenarios. Both of those are difficult to use in tourneys so many units end up under used.

After attending a few tourneys I came up with criteria that helps me decide which units to consider and which not to. To make a long story short, I decided to adjust the point values to many units based on my experience playing the game. I decided to use this blanket approach to make things more simple. Now, I don’t think my idea works for all units, as we proved the last time we played a reduced point cost tourney, units like Taelord become greatly unbalanced if they are cheaper. The truth is that many of the underused units would better benefit from changes to their powers, but I believe such an undertaking to be very difficult and usually doomed to fail. Also, general consensus is difficult to achieve and so this list is based mostly on my thoughts and those of fellow scaper Jonathan and it represents the values at which we feel we would consider this units in tourney play and also the “real” cost of many of the “A” units in the game. BY increasing their cost, many weaker units become automatically attractive, so it works both ways. Now, I know some of these look very low (Taro), but remember that it is just my perception of the cost at which I would consider said unit.

I have a few other ideas on how to widen the scope of tourney units, but this is a start. Please don’t flame me, it’s really a lighthearted attempt at some consensus so we can run a fun tourney with more unit variety. So, if you just hate the notion, please stay give me the best constructive criticism if you have any. I just really don’t want o be crucified for these ideas! He he he.

Also, check out Dignan’s thread on unit changes for more great ideas. The list is a copy paste from the power rankings with the unit’s actual value in parenthesis and our proposal next to it. Any help would be welcome!

I will soon post a list organized by point values.

A+
4th Mass. Line (70*)90
Deathreavers (40*)60
Major Q9 (180)220
Marro Stingers (60*)80
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-ROTV (80)120
Sir Gilbert (105)110

A
10th Regiment of Foot (75*)80
Blastatrons (60*)80
Braxas (210)
Captain America (220)
Gladiatrons (80*)
Isamu (10)20
Kaemon Awa(120)100
Knights of Weston(70*)
Krav Maga Agents (100)130
Laglor (110)130
Marro Warriors (50)70
Major Q10 (150)
Me-Burq-Sa (50)
Nilfheim (185)200

A-
Agent Skahen (120)100
Airborne Elite (110)100
Alastair MacDirk (110)
Atlaga (90)
Cyprien Esenwein (150)
Eldgrim the Viking Champion (30)20
Grimnak (120)100
Heavy Gruts (70*)
Marcu Esenwein (20) 10
Marcus Decimus Gallus (100)
Minions of Utgar (110*)
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider (50)
Roman Legionnaires (50*)
Silver Surfer (320)
Sonya Esenwein (45)
The Axegrinders of Burning Forge (70*)
Venom (150)
Zelrig (185)
Zetacron (60)50

B+
Arrow Gruts (40*)
Aubrien Archers (70*)
Blade Gruts (40*)
Brave Arrow (50)
Capuan Gladiators (70*)60
Crixus (90)80
Krug (120)
Marrden Nagrubs (30*)
Marro Dividers (50*)
Microcorp Agents (100*)90
Migol Ironwill (110)70
Mohican River Tribe (70*)70
Ne-Gok-Sa (90)
Sacred Band (50*)40
Sentinels of Jandar (110*)100
Sgt. Drake Alexander-SOTM (170)140
Sir Hawthorne (90)60
Spartacus (200)150
Spider-Man (160)
Swog Rider (25*)
Theracus (40)30
Tor-Kul-Na (220)180
Venoc Vipers (40*)30
Venoc Warlord (120)

B
Abomination (320)
Arkmer (50)40
Brunak (110)90
Charos (210)180
Concan the Kyrie Warrior (80)
Finn the Viking Champion (80)
Fyorlag Spiders (40*)30
Guilty McCreech (30)
Incredible Hulk (370)
Izumi Samurai (60)
James Murphy (60)
Marrden Hounds (90*)70
Marro Drones (50*)40
Marro Hive (160)120
Nakita Agents (120)
Omnicron Repulsors (40*)
Omnicron Snipers (100*)80
Otonashi (10)
Protectors of Ullar (110*)100
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-SOTM (120)
Sonlen (160)140
Sujoah (185)120
Syvarris (100)70
Tagawa Samurai (120)
Ulginesh (150)130
Warriors of Ashra (50*)30
Wolves of Badru (80*)50
Zombies of Morindan (60*)50

B-
Anubian Wolves (75*)
Armoc Vipers (65*)60
Ashigaru Harquebus (60*)
Emirroon (80)60
Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan (65)50
Jorhdawn (100)70
Kato Katsuro (200)140
Iron Man (240)
Kozuke Samurai (100)80
Kyntela Gwyn (20)10
MacDirk Warriors (80*)70
Mimring (150)100
Ornak (100)80
Retiarius (90)70
Sgt. Drake Alexander-ROTV (110)70
Sir Denrick (100)70
Su-Bak-Na (160)100
Tagawa Samurai Archers (65*)60
Thanos (360)
Thorgrim the Viking Champion (80)
Wo-Sa-Ga (135)110

C+
Agent Carr (100)70
Ashigaru Yari (40*)30
Chardris (90)70
Dr. Doom (245)
Deathstalkers (100*)70
Kumiko (80)50
Gurei-Oni (100)60
Iskra Esenwein (50)
Master Win Chiu Woo (140)120
Morsbane (100)80
Ninjas of the Northern Wind (110)70
Rechets of Bogdan (50)
Red Skull (190)
Sir Dupuis (150)
Tarn Viking Warriors (50)
Tornak (100)80
Tul-Bak-Ra (130)
Valguard (110)90

C
Dumutef Guard (25*)10
Elite Onyx Vipers (100)60
Gorillinators (90*)60
Jotun (225)185
Kee-Mo-Shi (130)100
Khosumet the Darklord (75)50
Parmenio (90)80
Saylind the Kyrie Warrior (80)60
Shaolin Monks (80*)60
Taelord the Kyrie Warrior (180)
Zettian Guards (70)40

C-
Acolarh (110)70
Dzu-Teh (75*)60
Deathwalker 8000 (130)50
Deathwalker 9000 (140)60
Dünd (110)60
Empress Kiova (90)80
Grok Riders (130*)80
Kelda the Kyrie Warrior (80)30
Roman Archers (55*)30
Runa (120)100
Templar Cavalry (120*)80
The Einar Imperium (140*)110
Warden 816 (90)50

D
Deadeye Dan (60)30
Major X17(100)50
Marro Drudge (50*)
Moriko (110)50
Obsidian Guards (100*)50
Shades of Bleakewoode (100*)70
Shiori (60)30
Sudema (140)100

F
Deathwalker 7000 (100)50
Hatamoto Taro (130)60

[ProtoFury]

Heh don't be bumpin' up the price of my Marro... But lowering the price on some of them (ahem... Hounds... ahem...) is totally cool with me!

I think that a lot of these seem like legitimate changes, and I wouldn't mind trying them out, but in all honesty, I'm not sure howmany tournaments would try it out. I'd love to attend one, though.

However, I noticed that the change for the Mohicans went from 70 to 70.. which is nothing. Also, I think that you may want to increase the Sentinals of Jandar as opposed to decreasing them--seeing an army with three squads of them at NHSD made me start thinking that they're actually underpriced for that shield bonus of theirs. And the drop from 50 to 30 on the Warriors of Ashra seems a bit steep IMO, I find that the price of 50 seems reasonable, although 40 would be a fair compromise.

Just my two cents.

[Agent Minivann]

If starting zones were not a consideration, I'd be tempted to field 7 squads of Marrden Hounds for these points.

[ProtoFury]

Originally Posted by Agent Minivann

If starting zones were not a consideration, I'd be tempted to field 7 squads of Marrden Hounds for these points.

I cant think of a better way to use 42 start zone spaces!

[Sweetcurse]

Thanks guys! Great input. I need to get these to an acceptable conclusion so they are somewhat useable for testing.

The Mohicans I figured would be OK once you considered other better squads are more expensive. You think they should be 60?

Also, should all Kyrie squads cost 110?

[Dignan]

Interesting list. As with anything of this nature, it seems very subjective. Looking over this list I raised my eyebrows at a great many of the changes, but that's to be expected.

With the point totals changing so randomly within the same grade, it's tough to figure out the reasoning behind each change. Did you ever entertain the idea of apply a multiplication factor to a unit based on it's grade? (ie all A- units are multiplied by 1.08, etc)

[ElvenEnvy]

I always thought the MRT should have been 65 points. It would have made them much more exchangable in Armoc builds. Not mention that five 5 deduction would have gotten them out of that horrible 70 point sweetspot where theres upteen alternatives.

[Jexik]

Not all that crazy, but Nilfheim to 200 and Kaemon Awa to 100 definitely had me scratching my head. I'd almost never play Nilfheim in this case, and I'm probably his biggest fan.

Also, if you ran an event like this, Matthias Maccabeus would be totally overpowered.

[Sweetcurse]

Thanks guys! I know some of these are crazy and subjective but we just want to try and diversify the scene without outright banning any figs.

Ok, so I'll try MRt at 65
NIlf at what, 190?
Awa back to 120?

Dignana, that’s sort of what we did last time. We had a multiplier and increased over used unit’s prices with that. This list is all just Jonathan, Ikari and I putting out our opinions on what these units should cost. I’ll post reasons for each price too.

Why do you think MM would be overpowered? I need to know to tone it down then.


Thanks for the input!

[ollie]

If your goal is to get some of the lower ranked units in play, I think you'll succeed comfortably. Kelda at 30? DW9K at 60? Obsidians at 50? I happen to think each of these units is playable (just about, and with some careful support-drafting) at their regular costs but I know I'm in the minority. At these prices, coupled with the increase in price of the popular units, I think you might be turning the rankings thoroughly on their head. Maybe that's what you want?

[Agent Minivann]

The law of unintended consequences would have something to say about DW9K at 60. I'll give you a hint. It has to do with the Blastatrons saying "Thank you!".

[Sweetcurse]

He he, and I thinkg the DW's could actually be great comon heroes!

No doubt it's intended to put the tourney upside down. But I also feel some of the changes are fair. I think most of the units in A+ are still great at those prices.

So, any specific changes you think I should make?