Boot Camp of Valhalla: Kobolds of Idona Keep (Reworking)

[Dad_Scaper]

Direct synergy with Raelin is playing fire in a gasoline factory. Of /course/ it's under the microscope in the C3V stage. I'd expect it to be challenged at every stage. You have your finger on one of the third rails, and without any thematic or mechanical reason to do so. Can't justify it and it appears to lead to an auto-build with auto-strategy? No thank you.

[Killometer]

What about Firbolg+Giant?

Master of the Hunt - 6 life, C+,
Frost Giant - 6 life, C+,
Jotun - 7 life, B-,
Mok - 8 life, B+,
Shurrak - 6 life, B,

Big guys protecting little guys protecting big guys.

And the strongest figure they'll link with has a better option (Mok+ABF).

[Shiftrex]

So bonding with a specific species ^^ that would seem to get us out of our current predicament. That does bring their general back into question if we go that way, an easy fix if we can agree on one, which would seem to be an easy way to go.

[johnny139]

Firbolg + Giant is the sort of "too specific" synergy that has always left a bad taste in my mouth. It's too metagamey.

Giant could work. Shurrak and Jotun were already some of the most fun choices. Thematically I'm not sure what the justification would be, though.

[Killometer]

I link them because in several fantasy settings (including D&D) firbolgs are a type of giant.

Just Giant looks good to me, too, though. I just want to keep them with

Semi-related, I still vote Ullar for these guys.

Originally Posted by johnny139

Giant could work. Shurrak and Jotun were already some of the most fun choices. Thematically I'm not sure what the justification would be, though.

Originally Posted by Killometer

For the more complex mechanical questions (Devotion), I see these little guys as allying themselves with someone much larger and stronger who can protect them, and in turn they defend their big guy ferociously, but once he goes down they fall into disarray and panic.

Also gives justification for a penalty after their hero goes down.

[TheAverageFan]

Giant (and/or Firbolg) sounds good enough to me--Shurrak and the Frost Giant in particular could use it. My only gripe is that Mok definitely doesn't need it (sure he synergies with ABF Dwarves already, but they don't bond with him too). Jotun could use the help for competing with dragons.

At the very least, it's a good place to start (and Ullar/Utgar sounds good to me)

~TAF,

[flameslayer93]

These guys don't bond. These just have synergy. Unless I've been playing them wrong this entire time.
@TheAverageFan

Bonding is a specific game term, so mixing up the term bonding and synergy causes confusion.

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

These guys don't bond. These just have synergy. Unless I've been playing them wrong this entire time.

A lot of people are getting this wrong. This is not bonding. It is much, much worse than bonding. That was why they needed a stat boost with Avenge, Devotion just wasn't cutting it.

@Killometer 's idea for Giant and Firbolg bonding sounds good to me. However, it does tie the Kobolds in with D&D somewhat. However, I'm sure we can do it. (Ullar kobolds sound like the way to go, I think)

I really liked our original design. We should archive it or something like that, so people who wish to can use that design if they wish.

[Lazy Orang]

1) They don't help Raelin, as the tests proove - just having synergy with her doesn't matter, if it's a synergy that doesn't help her. It isn't playing with fire when you look at how it actually works. If they bonded, that'd be different - but they don't.
2) They're Jandar because they're nothing like DnD kobolds. Jandar fits for folklore kobolds. I was simply ignorant to say no because they don't fit the DnD idea.
3) Can we please keep the original card up - I have a feeling these guys will be buthchered to get a passing vote, and want to play with the original.

[flameslayer93]

I went ahead and reuploaded the original card to HSer's gallery.

[Dad_Scaper]

If you guys were focused on making quality customs, and that was it, I would have said "good job" and that would have been it. I had thought your goal was something else.

Look. I'm not going to tell you guys what to do. But nitpicking at the reasons you got is sort of missing the point. There is no thematic or mechanical need for them to have direct synergy with an A+ unit. It's playing with matches needlessly. Second, these guys are noticeably shorter than Cutters. It is ridiculous - to me, to some others - that their melee attack should be among the highest in the game for a common squad for the duration of the game, following their leaders' death. I simply don't understand how they left here that way. Sure, MacDirks can pack a bigger wallop, but that's temporary, and somewhat within the opponent's control.

I didn't come here to defend what we did. I came to try to set you on a productive path.

[Ixe]

If we are considering switching them over to have Giant masters instead, I believe Feylund would be the best planet for them and Ullar should be their general (despite their blue clothes). These are still very much not D&D kobolds. If we were making them D&D kobolds, they would be evil and Dragons would probably need to be the master since that is who they most associate with.

Avenge the Master was a clean and simple way to address a problem, but I can understand the complaints against it. I am still under the impression that this was one of the biggest hang ups. Spit-balling, we could switch it up to a defense reduction on attacks they make (an effective attack boost) and call it something like Cunning Vengeance. Dropping it entirely or for some different power would also work, but we'd then have to acknowledge that they would not be that competitive outside of a few strategies.