House Rules to Help Under-used Units - Updated 1/11/08

[killercactus]

You don't want to do make it wolf specific because if more wolves came out that had Darklord Bonding, those wolves could move ridiculous amounts in one turn.

[RoninValentina]

Originally Posted by killercactus

I've thought about making their champion Finn or Thorgrim, and just plugging the viking myself 3 times somehow, then sending the Macdirks out with Gilbert. Or, if the house rule is in effect, just outright killing the Viking, placing his spirit AND giving the Macdirks big attack. Actually, that's probably why the rule is the way it is now.... I was looking at something like this...

I'm pretty shore that idea doesn't fly- not for the house rule but rather doesn't the Highlands Fury bonus goes away when the selected Champion dies, as he is "no longer in play?"

[The Engineer]

Hi, I'm a long time lurker on heroscapers and this is my first post. On behalf of Aldin I extend a hearty handshake and invite myself to read http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6970.

I have been talking with killercactus outside of the boards because I thought that there were some great ideas here. After playing heroscape for awhile I found that I agree very much with spider poisons ranking system and have noticed the distinct difference between "tourny" units and non-tourny units (see http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ead.php?t=6171 for more details). The idea of an officially unofficial tweaking for some of these C/D/F rated units appeals to me very much for casual gaming.

Here is what I propose: we continue what killercactus has started here as a community, tweaking these low ranked units slightly, play testing them as needed (no theoryscape), and then compiling an unofficially official list of tweaks for these low rated units. I think it would be of real value to the HS community as well as to casual heroscape in general. This would require some play testing, possibly a couple quick session reports, and a way to officially vote for the tweaks from time to time.

So, two questions for the community:

1) Would enough people like to see this done (I am plenty aware that any customization or house rules is considered unforgivable heresy by some gamers, even on officially unofficial level).

2) Would anyone be willing to play test tweaks and report their findings back here? We would eventually work though all of the lower ranked units listed by spider_poison.

(Please note: this list of tweaks would in no ways be meant to permanently replace the official cards or rules, but merely provide a way for underused units to compete with overused units in a casual setting. If we do it as a community, I believe the results could be quite good.)

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by RoninValentina

I'm pretty shore that idea doesn't fly- not for the house rule but rather doesn't the Highlands Fury bonus goes away when the selected Champion dies, as he is "no longer in play?"

I'm talking about doing with with the house rule in effect to see if it's broken. The house rules gives the Macdirks the Highland bonus even after the hero is dead.

[Boozehammer]

Originally Posted by The Engineer

Hi, I'm a long time lurker on heroscapers and this is my first post. On behalf of Aldin I extend a hearty handshake and invite myself to read http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6970.

I have been talking with killercactus outside of the boards because I thought that there were some great ideas here. After playing heroscape for awhile I found that I agree very much with spider poisons ranking system and have noticed the distinct difference between "tourny" units and non-tourny units (see http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ead.php?t=6171 for more details). The idea of an officially unofficial tweaking for some of these C/D/F rated units appeals to me very much for casual gaming.

Here is what I propose: we continue what killercactus has started here as a community, tweaking these low ranked units slightly, play testing them as needed (no theoryscape), and then compiling an unofficially official list of tweaks for these low rated units. I think it would be of real value to the HS community as well as to casual heroscape in general. This would require some play testing, possibly a couple quick session reports, and a way to officially vote for the tweaks from time to time.

So, two questions for the community:

1) Would enough people like to see this done (I am plenty aware that any customization or house rules is considered unforgivable heresy by some gamers, even on officially unofficial level).

2) Would anyone be willing to play test tweaks and report their findings back here? We would eventually work though all of the lower ranked units listed by spider_poison.

(Please note: this list of tweaks would in no ways be meant to permanently replace the official cards or rules, but merely provide a way for underused units to compete with overused units in a casual setting. If we do it as a community, I believe the results could be quite good.)

1) Vote for yea.

2) Yes, and am currently doing so. I encourage others to as well.

[Taeblewalker]

I am willing to try the Wolf Movement Bonding power. I really think the Highland Fury bonus idea is broken, though. In any case, what would help the MacDirks more is some defense.

[Aldin]

Welcome to the boards, The Engineer!

On behalf of our doctorate pursuing and greeter upstaging community I extend to you an Abbott and Costello "who's on first" routine.

~Aldin, putting modifications in the modification thread

[The Engineer]

Thanks, Aldin, its nice to be here.

I tried the Darklord Bonding last night and found that the Anubian Wolves almost held their own against an army of romans, but my opponent's KMA still dropped the darklord in two hits fairly early in. Still, the results seemed promising...

Any ideas for the roman archers?

[killercactus]

I took a shot at playtesting the Macdirks today with their House Rule. I used 500 point armies:

Gilbert - 105
Macdirks x2 - 160
Thorgrim (chosen champ) - 80
Q-10 - 150

Q9 - 180
Krav - 100
Raelin - 80
Laglor - 110
Marcu - 20
Isamu - 10

The map is a custom I call The Ruins of Swamp Castle (gimme a chuckle Holy Grail fans...). Its the same map I playtested the wolves on. Here's a pic:

(those glyphs were Attack +1 and Pit Trap, both face down)

The match started badly for Q9's squad, as Marcu went to claim one of the glyphs, rolled an 18 for Eternal hatred, and bit Raelin for 3 wounds(!). Then, Q-10, in a fit of inspiration from Marcu, turned around and fired 2 Wrist Rockets at Thorgrim for 3 wounds (!). Raelin flew to the top of a pillar on the right next, then Gilbert charged with the Macdirks. With a good dispatch roll, the Macdirks were able to claim both glyphs, and one even ran all the way down the road and swung at Q9, inflicting 2 wounds with his 6 dice (2+1 for glyph+3 for Thorgrim's wounds). Q-9 got rid of that warrior.



The second round sees Raelin win initiative and fly to a better spot, on top of the castle door on the road, to protect everyone. Q9 bears the rest of the markers, because only Gilbert and one Macdirk look to be able to make it to him. However, I screwed up as the Q9 player here - I should have moved Q9 away towards Raelin instead of trying to reposition her. Gilbert dispatched the Macdirks again, this time with 5 symbols. This enabled 3 Warriors to reach and attack Q9, one even boosted from Gilbert. Even rolling 9 dice, Q9 was no match for 2 attacks of 6 and 1 attack of 7 dice. With a free 2 turns, Gilbert took the warriors into the enemy starting zone and wiped out the sleeping Marcu, Laglor and all of the Krav in a true Highland Fury. Here's what that starting zone looked like by the end of ROUND 2!!!!



After that, it was a matter of chasing down Isamu and sending Q10 out to shoot Raelin off of her perch. Both were done rather efficiently.



So, the Macdirks won in a whitewash, though I'd like to try this again. I didn't even need to use the house rule, as Thorgrim never died. Also, Q9's army had bad luck with Marcu and I messed up the beginning of Round 2, and the map is melee friendly (flat with a road and many LOS blockers). But, it did show me strength from the Macdirks that I didn't realize they possessed. Some of you saying this rule will break them may be on the right track...

[Elstree]

Originally Posted by The Engineer

Here is what I propose: we continue what killercactus has started here as a community, tweaking these low ranked units slightly, play testing them as needed (no theoryscape), and then compiling an unofficially official list of tweaks for these low rated units.

I'd be curious to see the results. I'll just point out there are two schools of thought about this:

1. Adjust the point cost to more accurately match the existing stats and abilities.
2. Adjust the stats or abilities to more accurately match the existing point cost.

I'm more in favor of the former, as it involves a minimum of editing. You could just have a single sheet of paper with the adjusted point values on it as a reference during drafting, and then be done with it. Once play starts you just use what's printed on the card.

If you alter stats and powers, then you've got make an index of all these changes, and you need some way to refer back to these changes during play. This just seems messier to me.

[killercactus]

The problem I find with adjusting the point costs is that it just creates bigger armies. A lot of figures are priced to fit nicely in an army with the units with which they have synergy, so then you just build that army and add a filler hero or squad to it. I think that a lot of the time, that doesn't really help very much. Adding Isamu, Marcu or even Marro Warriors to a bad army doesn't really make it a good army. However, adjusting the abilities to make the army more efficient (and comparable with better units that cost the same) seems to work out for me.

You're right, it may be a little messier, but I think it goes farther in bringing under-used units up to speed with their tournament counterparts.

[Metaknight]

I don't know why but I am against changing guys to make them better. It is not what was intended and even a little change and luck can make them cheap, meaning unfair.