Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Official Units
Official Units Discussion of official HeroScape units


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 15th, 2007, 04:04 PM
killercactus's Avatar
killercactus killercactus is offline
The Guy That Thinks Runa is Good (and has actually won games with her)
 
Join Date: February 19, 2007
Location: OH - Austintown
Posts: 7,865
Images: 32
Blog Entries: 10
killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death!
House Rules to Help Under-used Units - Updated 1/11/08

This is a list of house rules I'm thinking about enstating in our games. I'm looking for any feedback on these to let me know if they're too much or too little to try and boost the playability of these figures right now. I think that they will all be playable competitively sometime in the future (some are now, but I still like the rule): EDITED 1/11/08

Green - Comments
Red - Deletions
Blue - Additions / Adjustments

Acolarh - Adjust Leaf of the Home Tree Aura to roll 12 (possibly 11) dice instead of 10 - playtested by killercactus, needs another test

Anubian Wolves - Add Darklord Bonding to their card.

Deathstalkers - convert Maul to a Special Attack 3 "When attacking with the Maul special attack against a small or medium figure, if nothing but skulls are rolled, the figure cannot roll defense dice." - killercactus with a bunch of help from Mechabeast

Concan - Knight and Sentinel Attack aura extended two 2 hexes - Squadshed

Deathwalker 7000 - add this line to Self Destruct "If Deathwalker 7000 is destroyed by something other than Self Destruct, he may immediately use Self Destruct."

Deathwalkers (8000/9000)- gains "Heavy Armor." When defending against a normal attack, Deathwalker (8000/9000) may roll 4 less defense dice to gain one automatic shield. This may only be done once per attack. - The Engineer - deleted

Dund - Crippling Gaze may be used before or after Dund moves

Dzu-Teh - Glacial Camouflage works on all attacks

Einar Imperium - Add Empress Movement Bonding to their card - playtested by Mechabease and killercactus.

Gorillinators - adjust Tough to work against all attacks - playtested by Mechabeast and killercactus

Hatamato Taro - Heroic Defense Aura works on all normal attacks (not just adjacent). Aura affecting Taro deleted

Jotun - Throw does not require a roll to activate - Mechabeast

Kyntela Gwyn - Strength of Oak Aura adjusted to 2 hexes deleted

Kelda the Kyrie Warrior - "Healing Touch." has a range of 3 spaces. - The Engineer, with suggestions from others

Macdirk Warriors Highland Fury continues after Champion is destroyed has been deleted

Major X17 - Melee Defense 4 works against normal and special attacks - Strange

Marro Drudge - gain +1 attack and defense on any swamp space, not just water

Morsbane - Rod of Negation works on 13 or higher, instant death on 20.

Obsidian Guards - Lava throw can be used anytime, regardless of terrain - Mechabeast

Parmenio - Sacred Band Defy Death extended to 3 hexes - Strange

Roman Archers - gains "Strength in Numbers." When defending with Roman Archers add 1 defense die for each other adjacent Roman Archer up to a maximum of +2 dice. - The Engineer

Runa - adjust Helm of Mitonsoul Aura to destroy any squad figure with a roll of 18 (changed from 14) or higher, heroes on 20. - playtested by The Engineer

Saylind - change Flying to Stealth Flying "Dirty Great Spear" works on a roll of 5 or higher. - The Engineer deleted

Shaolin Monks and Master Woo - Stealth Leap has a move of 4

Shiori - gains "Disappearing Ninja 16." If Shiori is attacked with a normal attack and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20 sided die to disappear. If you roll 1-15, roll defense dice as normal. If you roll 16 or higher, Shiori takes no damage and instead may move up to 4 spaces. Shiori can only disappear if she ends her disappearing move not adjacent to any enemy figures. - The Engineer

Sir Denrick - Giant Killer affects Large and Huge units. - Strange

Spartacus - adjust Gladiator Inspiration to read that only a marker on Spartacus is needed to trigger the power. When an order marker is revealed on Spartacus, you may take a turn with any Gladiator in clear LOS of Spartacus.

Sudema - Stare of Stone kills a hero on 16 or higher

Templar Cavalry - adjust Dismiss the Rabble to include ranged attacks - Reqman and Mechabeast

Zettian Guards - Add Deathwalker 9K bonding to their card.

Like battle reports? Click Tourney Reports (New 10/21/2012 - Cutters / Brutes!)
KC's Maps
Click KC's Customs
Scaper of the Week #57
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old November 15th, 2007, 07:34 PM
rym's Avatar
rym rym is offline
Who Bummed Woo
 
Join Date: September 9, 2007
Location: TX -Arlington
Posts: 3,025
Blog Entries: 25
rym is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla rym is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla rym is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla rym is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla rym is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla rym is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla rym is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla rym is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla rym is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla rym is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
While I don't have all the figures you are talking about making house rules for, I do like the changes you've decided to incorporate for the ones I do have.

I particularly like the Darklord bonding with the wolves and the Empress bonding with the Einer. I probably wouldn't adjust points on those two because you'll have to spend the extra points anyway to get the hero their bonding with anyhow.

I like the thought of adjusting the d20 rolls for the heroes that use them, such as Runa and Morsbane, especially if I'm the one getting to use the hero , but I don't know if I'd like to face those same revamped heroes across from me. Those type of changes might require a points adjustment as it may make them too powerful.

I guess the beauty of it all is you get to play lots of games playtesting it all!! (grinning)

"Chewie should move 6, lumbering or not. He's got long-ass legs"-
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old November 16th, 2007, 02:05 AM
blitz blitz is offline
 
Join Date: February 16, 2007
Posts: 74
blitz has disabled reputation
Re: House Rules to Help Under-used Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus
Anubian Wolves - Add Darklord Bonding to their card.
To be honest, I've never had a problem with wolves when Khosumet is on the board (or off wither). Maybe it would be better to give Devourer Bonding to Khosumet instead. It would reach the same goal and fix Khoz at the same time.

Personally, I just gave Khoz the Gorillanator's "Tough" ability and left the cost alone, and didn't tinker with the Wolves at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus
Marro Drudge - gain +1 attack and defense on any swamp space, not just water
I don't have the card in front of me, but I thought it workes in swamp to, since swamp is considered water for all abilities and land for movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus
Obsidian Guards - I can't think of anything logical to adjsut their powers and I don't want to play with points, but they need help....
Paint a squad grey and have their abilities work off stone tiles. They're not as powerful, but a lot more versatile. Maybe a limited form of tunnelling similar to the Druge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus
Spartacus - adjust Gladiator Inspiration to read that only a marker on Spartacus is needed to trigger the power. I also thought about adding Kato's power but in reference to Gladiators...
I can see this, but it's not enough. IMO, Spartacus is worth the 200 points if you've made a custom gladiator elite squad unit. Otherwise, just I'd lower the points 120. But the "any marker" idea may work. I'd have to try it out a few times to see.

Blood Makes the Grass Grow!
KILL! KILL! KILL!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old November 16th, 2007, 07:53 AM
killercactus's Avatar
killercactus killercactus is offline
The Guy That Thinks Runa is Good (and has actually won games with her)
 
Join Date: February 19, 2007
Location: OH - Austintown
Posts: 7,865
Images: 32
Blog Entries: 10
killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death!
Re: House Rules to Help Under-used Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz
Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus
Anubian Wolves - Add Darklord Bonding to their card.
To be honest, I've never had a problem with wolves when Khosumet is on the board (or off wither). Maybe it would be better to give Devourer Bonding to Khosumet instead. It would reach the same goal and fix Khoz at the same time.

Personally, I just gave Khoz the Gorillanator's "Tough" ability and left the cost alone, and didn't tinker with the Wolves at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus
Marro Drudge - gain +1 attack and defense on any swamp space, not just water
I don't have the card in front of me, but I thought it workes in swamp to, since swamp is considered water for all abilities and land for movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus
Obsidian Guards - I can't think of anything logical to adjsut their powers and I don't want to play with points, but they need help....
Paint a squad grey and have their abilities work off stone tiles. They're not as powerful, but a lot more versatile. Maybe a limited form of tunnelling similar to the Druge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus
Spartacus - adjust Gladiator Inspiration to read that only a marker on Spartacus is needed to trigger the power. I also thought about adding Kato's power but in reference to Gladiators...
I can see this, but it's not enough. IMO, Spartacus is worth the 200 points if you've made a custom gladiator elite squad unit. Otherwise, just I'd lower the points 120. But the "any marker" idea may work. I'd have to try it out a few times to see.
I don't want to give Khosumet Devourer bonding because then he would bond with the Shades and the Dumutef Guard. I'd like him to only bond with the Wolves, I don't think he needs anything else.

The Drudge only work on the swamp water, not the swamp land hexes. I want their ability to work on the swamp land hexes as well. They're still terrain specific then, but don't always have to give up height advantage to get +1 +1.

And I agree on Spartacus, it's still not enough. I don't want to adjust his point cost, but I could even give him some sort of Gladiator bonding, letting a couple gladiators move on each order marker.

Like battle reports? Click Tourney Reports (New 10/21/2012 - Cutters / Brutes!)
KC's Maps
Click KC's Customs
Scaper of the Week #57
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 16th, 2007, 07:53 AM
Dredd Stev's Avatar
Dredd Stev Dredd Stev is offline
Bill Nigh the Psions Guy
 
Join Date: February 22, 2007
Location: * Canada - St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 1,685
Blog Entries: 4
Dredd Stev is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Dredd Stev is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Dredd Stev is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Dredd Stev is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Dredd Stev is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Dredd Stev is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Dredd Stev is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Dredd Stev is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
I'm generally against changing the powers or point values of cards anyway, but I do like some of the additions you've made. DW7K blowing up after whiffing out is a particularly cool change and Iíve considered using it myself. Other than that I really must say I would not change any of the figures and in particular:

Quote:
Einar Imperium - Add Empress Bonding to their card
That makes the EI amazingly powerful; the gift of the empress is way too good for her to bond with them. Hell she's a decent fighter in her own right much less with 3 EI swooping all around her!

Looking for quality maps for 3+ players? Think your latest map-masterpiece deserves a place of honor? Join in the discussion of The War-zones of Valhalla

It doesn't get any more classic than this: The C3V project
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 16th, 2007, 08:55 AM
DeadZa DeadZa is offline
 
Join Date: November 1, 2007
Posts: 101
DeadZa has disabled reputation
Anubian wolves seem fine to me, the fact their hero sucks is just a sad after thought. Even if he had bonding he'd be pretty bad but might seem some playtime. 3 Life melee only Hero units don't appeal to me though for 75pts.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 16th, 2007, 09:44 AM
jcb231 jcb231 is offline
has been BANNED
 
Join Date: May 13, 2006
Location: Here, There, and Everywhere
Posts: 6,015
jcb231 is a puppet of Ne-Gok-Sa
Wow....you "under use" a lot of units!

Start reading the strategy guides on this site. You may learn how to use those figures better without changing them so drastically.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old November 16th, 2007, 10:41 AM
Sweetcurse's Avatar
Sweetcurse Sweetcurse is offline
"Blame it on me" (was #3...)
 
Join Date: May 19, 2006
Location: TX - Houston
Posts: 5,792
Sweetcurse wears ripped pants of awesomeness Sweetcurse wears ripped pants of awesomeness Sweetcurse wears ripped pants of awesomeness Sweetcurse wears ripped pants of awesomeness Sweetcurse wears ripped pants of awesomeness Sweetcurse wears ripped pants of awesomeness
We played the Darklord at 50 points and he seemed pretty good for that price. His biggest problem is not exclusive to him. In general, adjacent bonuses are bogus and not worth the trouble. If it was a 4 aura he may see more play I think. Bonding him makes the wolves too nasty and they are already strong.

Sweetcurse is Sujoah...

in the
Perth Keep...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 16th, 2007, 10:55 AM
guns_linger guns_linger is offline
 
Join Date: November 13, 2007
Location: IL - Chicago
Posts: 19
guns_linger has disabled reputation
I like your changes to Runa. God, that chick needs some help.

You can hear my band here:
www.myspace.com/voodooandvalentine
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old November 16th, 2007, 12:05 PM
killercactus's Avatar
killercactus killercactus is offline
The Guy That Thinks Runa is Good (and has actually won games with her)
 
Join Date: February 19, 2007
Location: OH - Austintown
Posts: 7,865
Images: 32
Blog Entries: 10
killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcb231
Wow....you "under use" a lot of units!

Start reading the strategy guides on this site. You may learn how to use those figures better without changing them so drastically.
I've read the guides (and even wrote a couple ) and agree that most of the units up there can be played casually with their current point cost and powers, and perform well if they are played strategically. However, I don't believe that these units are "competitive" in the current environment with what is on their respective cards. There are simply better alternatives available that are more consistent to put into competitive armies. This has caused my playgroup to just never draft competitive units like Q9, Krav, Raelin, etc because we want to use the others (mostly the units listed) and not have a lopsided game. My aim at these changes is to get these units even to comparable units in this environment, until more units are released to give them a boost.

As far an the Imperium go, Dredd, do you really think Gift of the Empress is that good? I don't really like it - at 3 defense dice with a reroll, you should block one skull nearly everytime, but I still have problems blocking 2 consistently. Also, you lose out on a lot of attacks by putting markers on Kiova. However, maybe Empress Bonding is too strong - how about Empress Movement Bonding? Then she doesn't get at attack, but can still keep her EI in range of her Aura. I agree this will make the EI very strong, but they should be very strong for 140 points per squad. I want them to be able to fly into 2 squads of 4th Mass and have a shot at killing them all before they get gunned down. For 140 points, that's what they should be able to do.

Sweetcurse - As for Darklord bonding... I don't know. My comparison was the Knights bonding with Gilbert for 175 points. For 25 points less, you would get a squad of 3 wolves (compared to 4 Knights) with about the same move as the Knights thanks to Dispatch, with each wolf having on average about one more attack die than the Knights, and the Hero they get is considerably weaker, although both give an adjacent attack bonus. On top of all that, the Knights are Valiant, and therefore can benefit the 4th mass. I thought that was about fair, although I could be convinced otherwise...

Lastly, Its kinda funny... of all the units on that list (save the Wolves, but I'm indirectly trying to help Khosumet there), the one I thought needed the least help was Runa. Maybe it's because I'm somewhat partial to her, I don't know. But, no one in my group ever seems to perform well with her except me, so I gave her a boost. That makes her 3 space aura much more beneficial. Without it, she's really only a meatshield for the Minions that might get lucky and kill a hero.

Thanks to all for the responses - I like debating these things and respect the input.

Like battle reports? Click Tourney Reports (New 10/21/2012 - Cutters / Brutes!)
KC's Maps
Click KC's Customs
Scaper of the Week #57
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old November 16th, 2007, 12:22 PM
guns_linger guns_linger is offline
 
Join Date: November 13, 2007
Location: IL - Chicago
Posts: 19
guns_linger has disabled reputation
At our games, we make Runa have Stealth Flying. That way she can fly from group to group attempting in vain to roll anything but low numbers on a d20. We like to think it makes her feel useful.

You can hear my band here:
www.myspace.com/voodooandvalentine
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old November 16th, 2007, 12:42 PM
Riggler's Avatar
Riggler Riggler is offline
BoV Judge Emeritus Revisitus
 
Join Date: May 21, 2006
Location: FL - Tallahassee
Posts: 1,234
Riggler rolls all skulls baby! Riggler rolls all skulls baby! Riggler rolls all skulls baby! Riggler rolls all skulls baby! Riggler rolls all skulls baby! Riggler rolls all skulls baby!
Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus

As far an the Imperium go, Dredd, do you really think Gift of the Empress is that good? I don't really like it - at 3 defense dice with a reroll, you should block one skull nearly everytime, but I still have problems blocking 2 consistently. Also, you lose out on a lot of attacks by putting markers on Kiova.
Gift of the Empress really shines with Raelin added to the mix. An army using IE x 2, Raelin and the Empress -- 450 pts. with whatever left over to fill a 500--600 pt. army is pretty impressive. Every one of your units on the board is a "prime" target. Sure you've got to keep your army together, but once engagement begins you take the other army through the shredder and are relatively safe if you've guarded your two support gals in the early game. You'd want to fill out this army with range obviously. In short, I know too late, Empress and EI don't need any help.

DUND is underestimated and under-rated.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Official Units
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:50 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.