Mastering the Game

[Sarpedon]

Greetings, Master

Well said. If someone has read my previous posts in various threads regarding competitive players, he would see that Spider Poison prepares for a tournament in a way similar to that which I described. He works at it. He plans. He practices, even looking for subtle weaknesses in his army build so that he does not find out about them in the tournament when it's too late. He probably spends as much time (if not more) preparing for a tournament as he does actually playing in it!

That's what it takes to be a champ or even a very good player. Does he have fun doing it? I'm sure he does. Planning/playing well and having fun are in no way mutually exclusive: in fact, for good players, they go hand in hand. If he doesn't win the tournament, he'll take it in stride knowing that it wasn't for lack of preparation, but simply because his opponents played well and, perhaps in a critical moment in a key game, the dice did not go his way.

I'm very glad he described his background work. Thank you very much for sharing it with us, Spider Poison. I hope all tournament players who want to improve are taking notes. In spite of his talent, he still has to work hard at it. That's the kind of player I want to play against in a tournament. I only wish I had as many good players as he does to playtest my armies against.

[SuperflyTNT]

Well, I generally play with Marduk, Utgarsrage and outforblood, so I don't have the honor to play with anyone who's any good at Heroscape!!!


!!!!!!

[Kroc]

Originally Posted by spider_poison

After I decide on an army for an event, I like to get in lots of practice games with that army. Specifically, I like to play against what my army is bad against. .. I'll even modify the glyph pool to stack the odds even worse against me.

Standard sneaky master trick, he likes to CLAIM that he works hard at it but really its just that he has a special relationship with the dice.

Admit it, spider_poison, its all just lucky dice rolls, isn't it???

[Manatee]

But does mastery = total control? As suggested by SW8K's poker comparison upthread, not even the most dominant poker player can be said to have "mastered" the game (in the sense of having full control of all elements of play). There's just too much randomness to make that definition of mastery applicable to 'scape.

[GreenLanturn]

Sorry double post. How do i delete this?

[GreenLanturn]

Originally Posted by Snotwalker 8000

On the flipside, can one be a Master Poker Player? Of course! It's a game that obviously depends a great deal on the "luck of the draw".... but a Master Poker Player knows how to play the odds and win more than lose. also involves Mastery of:

• Bluffing skills
• Ability to "read" your opponent's "tells"
• Knowledge of the odds
• measured decision-making skills in betting/folding/holding

And then compare Heroscape to Chess, where there are obvious Masters (and GrandMasters), where it's acknowledged as 100% skill. Similar skills to master in both Heroscape and Chess:

• Planning several moves ahead
• Playing Combination Moves
• Mastering the different plays for opening/mid/end games.
• Reading your opponent AND messing with his head skills (in-person chess games)
• Situational awareness / identifying potential threats.
• Use of sacrificial plays for advantage.
• Board control

SW8K

Originally Posted by Manatee

But does mastery = total control? As suggested by SW8K's poker comparison upthread, not even the most dominant poker player can be said to have "mastered" the game (in the sense of having full control of all elements of play). There's just too much randomness to make that definition of mastery applicable to 'scape.

He doesn't say that Poker is 100% skill like he does with chess. He states that a master Poker player can play the odds to win more than lose. Meaning there is no 100% in Poker.

When you play poker bring your shades.

[Nwojedi]

You don't have to practice to have effectiveness. The madison tourney last weekend, I pulled an army out of my butt at 11pm in about 15 min. Even thou Joah told me to look at the map first. I didn't. I just pulled out 600 points that I thought would be the most versitle in any situation. I had not idea on the map, glyphs being used, or anything. In fact, I wasn't even planning on being in a tournament until that day. Picked out my army, threw it in a bag, and went to the tourney the next morning. This is usually the way I do all my armies. Not knowing the map, goes to your advantage. Others overthink a map, or setup and army for a specific situation, and design it completely around that. SO if a monkey wrench it thrown in, they don't know what to do. If you have no idea and just build a solid army ready for anything, your chances will be much better. But still comes down to dice.
I was 5-0 at Madison, with one match that was very close. Some wern't close at all, where I lost 3 single figures out of the entire battle.

You can play flawlessly. Take advantage of every mistake your opponent makes, have an army that works like clockwork, and if the dice arn't rolling your way, you will lose. 50% of the game involves dice rolling. Therefore, 50% of the game is luck based. Would you say that MTG is luck based? Somewhat, but more like 20%, since the only luck is luck of the draw. Mostly dependant on deck building and how all your cards work with one another. No dice involved.
I'd say HS is more like cribbage. You have massive luck standpoint on your dependant on the cards you get, but you have limited control to increase your odds on what cards you hope to land.

[Kroc]

Congratulations on a great tournament, Nwojedi, and please go to the "Is Heroscape more Luck or Skill" thread and post your vote (if you haven't).

But as SW8K has said several time, very eloquently, this thread is about whether you can master the game, now whether you can master the dice.

Sounds to me like you are on your way to being a pretty fearsome opponent.

And you are right, as masters of many games will tell you, over analysis can make you a worse player.

I'd bet that's Jexik 's main flaw. He is great at Theoryscape, but has admitted not so good at Heroscape.

[Sarpedon]

Greetings, Nwojedi

Congratulations on your 5-0 tournament victory. If you don't mind though, could you please tell us how many players were at the event and what units were in the army that you drafted? The reason I ask is because, although you (seem to) say you just threw an army together, it is odd that it worked so well for you. Your method is in stark contrast to that of Spider Poison's (a player whom many consider a master). Unlike you, he seems to feel the need to prepare a lot.

I'm also curious to know how many tournaments you attend, on average, per year and how many you've won or placed 1st-4th in. This would give us a better idea of your overall results using the method you describe.

By the way, have you ever played Spider Poison or other players of note at this site? How did you do against them? I know I'd like to have a chance to play against them.

[Revdyer]

Of course, what Nwojedi didn't mention is that he has played a lot of 'Scape and is really smart and very game-experienced in a wide variety of genres.

He's also a really nice guy.

[Kroc]

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

..., although you say you just "threw an army together", it seems odd that it worked so well for you...

ANOTHER sneaky master trick, to downplay all your accomplishments as simple luck.

Gosh, we're learning a lot about proper Master protocol on this thread.

(Not that we have enough evidence to put Nwojedi into the master class. This trick is also used by wannabe masters to intimidate opponents.)

[Harlax]

For comparison purposes, the runner up at Mad Town used a preparation routine very similar to what Spider Poison described.