D2 - changes in the base size

[Lotus]

I think all this banter towards the end of Heroscape Classic frivolous. If I am a small division of a large company, a division with limited resources, and am given a large project in addition to all of my other large projects. I have to decide where sacrifices can be made to ensure none of my products take a heavy hit. Therefore to save money and pump out some product quickly before losing any costumers, I recycle some product in a new (and dare I say exciting) new format. This is turn allows that division to gather some profits and funds to then divert to entirely new and original products.

DDM failed due to a complete rules change over (see Mage Knight for another example of this type of failure)

Oh for reference to how the base sizes can assist your Heroscape sales, see here:
http://ddmspoilers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3228

OK, I was just looking at your gallery (thanks greyhaze!) and I'm almost POSITIVE that the bases on the small and medium miniatures for these are NOT the oversize HeroScape bases. They look the same size as most standard 1" DDM bases (with the exception of some of the older minis from DDM which had smaller bases than 1") which means that these will NOT need to be rebased to be usable on a standard battlemat!!!

[Warlord Alpha]

Originally Posted by Devo Hulk

Of all the changes made to 'Scape over the past 6 months, I don't understand how the new bases can even register on people's list of complaints let alone be a 'final straw.'
The more people buy these figures, the more likely we'll be to seeing more "Classic 'Scape." The base is purely aesthetic, like the color of the dice and the border on the cards.

But the thing is, aesthetics really matter to some people. It certainly matters to me. I just don't know how big of a deal this is to me quite yet. If I pick one of these figures up and see that the base really isn't all that different I won't care, but if it just seems really out of place I might be kind of put off by that.

Remember, different things matter to different people.

[ozzy-scaper]

My initial reaction to the base change is "What next?" as I'm as resistant to change as the next guy - but some of you guys (Yodaking for instance) have raised some good ideas re using the smaller bases to "play" with LOS. Good idea! For me, it's all about keeping HS alive, making it profitable, and seeing some new expansions such as buildings, trees, etc.

Great work by the design guys - thanks and keep it up!

Sadly, some of the flak flying around earlier in this discussion was a bit much. We talk about influencing other gamers to jump into HS - well, don't leave it all up to WoTC. This forum has always been of a high standard (which has kept me interested in HS during lean times) - let's get back to civil debate or simply ignoring posts. Blowing hot air or differing opinions aren't the same as twits posting "I think Raelin has a great pair..."

Oz

[Sujoah]

Originally Posted by Jim

I'd just like to jump in here and point out something that everyone who is saying that "Classic is dead" is not saying. That it is their opinion, not a fact, even though they always state it as if it were a fact. If they have inside information to support the statement, then it could be a fact, but otherwise it is simply their opinion.

Very true. And as you can see in my signature, classic isn't done, just halted.

[tcglkn]

Originally Posted by Sujoah

Very true. And as you can see in my signature, classic isn't done, just halted.

Can you link it to the post?

[Chardar]

I'm used to playing with dnd minis, mageknight minis, and heroscape minis with customs. This is really not a large step for myself or those into customs. I think that the customs community will be far less offended by the change. At first I was opposed when I saw them in the preview, but now that I can see them up close I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[Sujoah]

Originally Posted by tcglkn

Can you link it to the post?

Here.

[tcglkn]

Originally Posted by Sujoah

Here.

Thanks thats good stuff. It make sense, molding and designing new figures has to cost a lot more than simply modifying the DnD molds they already have. Hopefully Classic 'scape will return, but I will continue to buy as long as we get "new" figures and stat cards.

Now I know customs provide us with both of those, but its not the same, they are official units that I could take to a tournament. The only "custom" Units I would allow at a tournament would be C3G Units.

Scape will always live on here at HSers.com. I would like to start something up like the C3G for normal customs.

[TheSparkleInYourWater]

Originally Posted by fomox

D&D minis is the line that crashed before. Heroscape is still going. It would appear, then, that WotC has revealed that Heroscape is the stronger of the two. So much so that the minis that died as D&Dminis can actually sell as Heroscape.

There is a practical limit as to how many waves of D&D reprints they can do. Soon all the reasonable sculpts (and a few unreasonable ones) will have been used up, and it will be time to create new sculpts. A few of these new sculpts could be used to round out the remainder of a D&D reprint wave, but then I think we can expect to see new classic waves mixed in with new D&D waves. Maybe a marvel wave.. (Oh wait, no...)

As Gbob has pointed out elsewhere, there are people in high places at Hasbro who love Heroscape. It seems to be selling very well, despite all it's been through. There is a lot of reason to be optimistic, even if you aren't fond of some of the current moves.

The D&D minis line is still making new figures. I remember the set that was released late last year (?) with a cyclops skeleton being promoted at different miniatures sites. Wikipedia says that the next D&D minis release will be this August and will have 60 miniatures in it. They should be able to get a couple waves out of that. So no reason that they would run out of figures. I don't get why people say that eventually they will have to return to classic when they keep expanding the pool of D&D minis.

I might as well give my opinion since I've read everyone elses.

New Bases
I don't like the base change. Having rebased 100's of customs for marvel and classic it's a little annoying to think that if I buy these new figures I wasted a lot of time and cut fingers and everything still isn't going to match. The bases are still very similar, so they might not be that bad. I'll have to see them in person.
I liked reading what people's fiance's and wives reactions were so I thought I'd ask a couple of women to see what they thought.
My sister in-law stared at me then said "Oh No!" Then laughed. Take that for what it's worth.
My sister said "So what." Then I told her that all heroscape had been canceled and they'd never re-release any of the old figures again and she said "So what."
A friend who knows how much time I spent re-basing said that it kind of sucked that I did all that work and now the new official figures weren't even using the normal bases. Again though they may be similar enough that they don't bother me.

D&D figures
I don't mind re-using D&D figures if they have to. It makes my customs look more official.(So do the new bases.) Actually some of my modded/repainted customs are pretty hard to tell apart from the real stuff. But I'm just referring to my customs made from other miniatures(Some of them being D&D).

However if D&D had been the only scape there was when I first bought all of my collection I wouldn't have bought it. It just doesn't have a strong appeal to me. I still get excited waiting for the D&D releases and seeing the new cards, but even if I had the money to spare I wouldn't be buying most of it. No charm I guess. Some of the figures have it, but overall it's just bleh to me.

Uncommon Heros
Still don't see the point really. It's thematic I guess, but anyone of the uncommons could have been unique and nobody would have known otherwise. Casual players aren't going to care much either. (Tom Vasel's comment on them comes to mind. I do enjoy his reviews.)

WoTC
I don't like 'em. It's okay to re-use the D&D minis, but to me it would be so much better if they didn't even put the D&D tag on it. I hate how Heroscape has to pander to D&D keeping the characters in likeness with their D&D forms. The designers should be able to re-name the figures what ever they want and give them what ever powers they want. If they want the Ice Elemental to shoot a fireball then he should, I don't care if he doesn't do it in D&D, this is Heroscape!

New Cards
I haven't cared as much about the new figures on the actual powers/stats end as I used to either. Nothing in MS3 struck me. It does seem to have a different feel to it. Some of the stuff in the waves I've really liked though. The pk's, the hydra. I'm a bit of a mark for common heroes, so the elementals and the new wyrmlings go over on me (though I already have a custom covenant of witches, warwitches to include Kee-Mo-Shi and another figure, that work the exact same way only they're unique. Thought about making one of them common...)... Anyway some really good stuff on the actual design end. Just as good as it's ever been, ecspecially considering that from what I've interrupted they're much more limited on what they can come up with since they have to stay true to D&D.

Overall
The D&D stuff feels like customs to me. And I don't want to have to pay for something that I could have made myself for possibly less money. The fire elementals come to mind, I have some fire elementals that actually look like fire elementals to use as the D&D scape versions.
I feel like Clancambell and others in some ways. I'd still pick up some of the D&D units, but overall I'd compare it to watching Ric Flair wrestle. I love watching Ric Flair's matches from the 80's, but seeing his occasional match nowadays that he's in his 60's sometimes makes me a little sad and embarrased. He's only hurting his legacy. He's still got the passion and the mechanics, but visually it's not there and he's limited physically. A lot like scape is now, visually not as enjoyable and limited as to what can be done. But Ric Flair (heroscape) isn't being forced to walk and talk like Hulk Hogan (D&D). Aaah, 61 year old Ric Flair is still better than D&D. WOOOO!


Thanks for the previews and everything though. I really do look forward to them and still like some of the new units. Mr. Dupuis does a very good job in his write ups. I'd much rather have to wait another month for them than to see leaked info tomorrow. Glad that people who like heroscape as much as I do have been kept on board to design the new figures.

[TurtleKing99]

Well, no one complains that there are two sizes of double hex bases, or that DW9K's is bigger, so why complain about these?

These will mean that 'scape will be more popular, so they will release expansions sooner.

However, a lot of the new figures are hanging off the bases

EDIT: Also, if we re-base our old figures to the new bases, (since they have the advantage of being able to move around more on the hexes) will they be tournament legal?

[vertigosmooth]

My whole thing on all of this is I love Heroscape, I buy the old and the new dnd stuff and enjoy all of it. So I'm not against the new waves at all, but I do agree I will miss the old figures if we never get back to them. The older Heroscape models were just made better, period. My Legos weapons are still in perfect shape while my months old PK's weapons are completely bent. I do believe the quality of the figures is not as good(the bigger ones seem ok, I'm mainly talking small/medium). I also liked the way the original Heroscape had no rules, elves with cowboys? Sure, Orcs and Indians? Great! They even could throw in historic figures like Spartacus and it all worked in the world of Valhalla. I always really liked that about Heroscape, you never knew what you would get. So I guess my only complaints at all(which arent many) are the actual figures themselves being worse quality, and the limited theme of new figures(following dnd rules). I love the HS designers new abilities and character ideas though, and I'm sure as long as they are doing them it will still be fun.

And for what its worth, the year Heroscape came out me and a buddy of mine ran across Heroscape and dnd minis game at Toys r Us and didnt know which game to try, so I bought dnd and he bought HS. We both played a game of each and needless to say DnD minis was never touched again, ha! I really believe one of the reasons were the quality of the minis(not to mention the more fun game), after looking at his HS minis and then my dnd ones, It was obvious who made better figures.

All in all, I'll continue buying scape no matter which way it goes, but would I be happy with the return of classic scape and classic molds? Sure




Dustin

[Raudulfr Shieldcrusher]

Originally Posted by TurtleKing99

EDIT: Also, if we re-base our old figures to the new bases, (since they have the advantage of being able to move around more on the hexes) will they be tournament legal?

Most likely not. TDs only allow repaints and nothing more. The figures need to be standardized for fairness. Keeping them as produced is the only way to make that happen.