If Deathchasers can win a tournament, why can't Macdirks?

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

There is more risk using the MacDirks, who I think perhaps compare more interestingly with the Greenscales.

Originally Posted by Aldin

I love the depth of earlier responses. The simple answer is that the MacDirks have a critical vulnerability which the DCoT lack - their Champion. Armies with critical vulnerabilities have a difficult time winning tournaments.

I agree with Aldin.

~ DS, noting from the deep

[SirGalahad]

Plus, I think you're missing that the MacDirks don't get to "switch" their champion during the game. At the beginning of the game, choose one champion for all MacDirks for the entire game.

[Killometer]

Originally Posted by killercactus

Wow - a lot of stuff happened in the 10 minutes I wasn't looking at this. Most of you said the same thing, so I'll respond to Killometer who seems to have said the most:

What can I say, exept I love me some Death Chasers!

Originally Posted by killercastus

I'm only suggesting that you bond with Eldgrim twice for the entire game, and one of those is likely to be before you're close enough to attack anything. The rest of the game you're bonding with Gilbert, who can attack if he wants to. And, he probably should attack more than he should with the KoW, since you're a bit less concerned about him dying.

Yeah, I guess that once Sir G's in the thick of things with the MacDirks he can be used more aggressively, since there's a pretty good chance that most of the MacDirks have moved up.

Originally Posted by killercactus

Conceded, though I only think Raelin is going to take 1, maybe 2 OMs away, and she takes the same amount if the Death Chasers play her.

If you keep Raelin parked too much, either you're limiting where your MacDirks go, or you're not geting her full potential. With Nerak in tow, you can park Raelin as a lay-over on the way to the action, then zip Nerak to cover whatever area needs a boost. And any DC sitting in both aura's gets a defense of 5.

Originally Posted by killercactus

Again, the MacDirks' attack is going to be 3 right away, which means they're throwing as many dice as the Death Chasers are right out of the gate. I agree that losing Eldgrim screws them, but I think there are very few matchups where that's going to be a legitimate scare early on. And against figures like Cyprien / AE, you can always still choose Gilbert as the champion, and even try to wound him with Raelin if you want when you move her.

The MacDirk's champ gets a reeeeally big target on him, and if anyone does break through (whether to Eldgrim or Sir Gilbert) it can go real bad real fast.

Originally Posted by killercactus

I think Gilbert is more comfortable in the thick of the battle than he gets credit for, especially with the MacDirks. He has better survivability than either the Pulverizer or MBS, and grants an attack boost. With the KoW, Dispatch is absolutely critical, but with the MacDirks it's a bit less critical and more of a bonus. Gilbert might need to be played a bit different than players might be used to, but I think he can serve that purpose, and he isn't going to kill himself or any of your guys.

Fair 'nuff (I guess this would be as good a time as any to come clean that the Warhulk and I are BFFs ).

Originally Posted by killercactus

Conceded again that Battle Rush is a big deal. Jandar's Dispatch can be though, too. The MacDirk's are really fast when you add Dispatch - fast enough to stay out of the threat range of some figures and gain the first strike, and then they get all the other Dispatch benefits (like fording rivers, disengaging without losing attacks, bringing up reserves when you don't need to move, etc.). I think Dispatch can help the MacDirks get high ground quite often. They'll be averaging 7 move, which is pretty darn fast. And while the extra movement of a figure is probably cancelled out for the game by Battle Rush, the extra attack each Order Marker isn't.

I think Dipatch vs. Battle Rush is pretty even, and mostly depends on personal preference. A vote for the DCs is that it is pretty cool when your opponent's eyes go wide and they say "Wait, all of them?!"

Originally Posted by killercactus

Again - all of this is theory though. I've just started screwing around with using Eldgrim this way. Good discussion, though.

Good theory, it looks like. I've always loved Highland Fury, and spent quite a while trying to (fruitlessly) get it right. I may have to gve this a try.

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Use a low-life hero, you could have problems, use a higher-life hero, you are introducing other problems. There is more risk using the MacDirks, who I think perhaps compare more interestingly with the Greenscales.

Originally Posted by Aldin

I love the depth of earlier responses. The simple answer is that the MacDirks have a critical vulnerability which the DCoT lack - their Champion. Armies with critical vulnerabilities have a difficult time winning tournaments.

~Aldin, hunting human champions

I think this might be the real reason, and I also wonder if the Greenscales will just be a "flash in the pan" kind of army that most people didn't know how to beat yet (kill the dragon). I went 2-4 with them at the TTO, after going 5-1 at the GC indy championship.

Good comments.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

I agree with Aldin.

~ DS, noting from the deep

I agree with you guys, too, but the difference between the Greenscales and this is that the Greenscales' champion is out there attacking you, in the thick of the battle. If you're using Eldgrim, he's buried in the back of the starting zone, away from the battle, which doesn't really make it easy to target him, especially if there's a ruin or something he can hide behind. I might even go so far as to wall him off with MacDirks until those ones are ready to move.

Originally Posted by Killometer

If you keep Raelin parked too much, either you're limiting where your MacDirks go, or you're not geting her full potential. With Nerak in tow, you can park Raelin as a lay-over on the way to the action, then zip Nerak to cover whatever area needs a boost. And any DC sitting in both aura's gets a defense of 5.

True that Nerak can stay in tow, but remember that everytime you activate him, you aren't activating an Ogre/MBS, so it's not all that beneficial to keep moving him. I can't argue that his aura isn't nice, though.

Originally Posted by Killometer

The MacDirk's champ gets a reeeeally big target on him, and if anyone does break through (whether to Eldgrim or Sir Gilbert) it can go real bad real fast.

Yes it can, but I think if Eldgrim is so far away from the battle it really becomes less of a concern. Anyone who has played against Kato or Kurrok know how tough it can be to get at those important pieces if the player is protecting them well by blocking off paths to them and tying down enemy figures, and they're usually in the front of the starting zone, and they have to be able to see. Eldgrim is going to be as far back as possible, or behind a ruin because he doesn't have to see anything.

Originally Posted by Killometer

I think Dipatch vs. Battle Rush is pretty even, and mostly depends on personal preference. A vote for the DCs is that it is pretty cool when your opponent's eyes go wide and they say "Wait, all of them?!"

That was kind of how I felt when I started thinking about this, though I admit that Dispatch is at the mercy of the dice. But Battle Rush doesn't come with all of those cool little Dispatch tricks.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by SirGalahad

Plus, I think you're missing that the MacDirks don't get to "switch" their champion during the game. At the beginning of the game, choose one champion for all MacDirks for the entire game.

That only applies to Highland Fury though - they can still bond with any Champion they want each turn with Human Champion Bonding.

[Boodog]

It really comes down to sound effects. Are you better at making guttural, mucus-y, orc sounds, or can you effect a decent Scottish accent? That should point you to the right army choice.

[Taeblewalker]

I posted my thoughts here.

[Scapemage]

I ahven't read a piece of strategy in a while, and this one was quite interesting. I really like the idea of using Eldgrim to boost the Warriors' attack. They'd begin round 2 with 4/5 attack, which is great if it stays that way for the entire game.

[nate the dawg]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to killercactus again.

Excellent post, and a good comparison overall. I like the strategy - going with Eldgrim over the obvious Alistaire - though at higher point-totals, I might use both!

I'll definitely be giving my Scottish homeboys another shot...the first in years.

[NecroBlade]

This thread raises some good points that definitely make me want to bring out the MacDirks again (though to actually play them competitively I'd need another squad). However, I will say the biggest advantage the Death Chasers have is simply points.

I've found it's pretty good practice to field a dozen figures of a given squad. So either four three-man squads or three four-man squads. For the MacD's, 3 x 80 = 240. For DC's, 4 x 55 = 220. That 20 points is HUGE when trying to fill out the rest of your army.

Going with the Eldgrim build (which I'm not convinced is that great), say you throw in Sir Gilbert to mirror Battle Rush. You're already up to 375 points, leaving 125 (at 500 'standard,' though I'm digging 510 a lot these days) for Raelin/ranged support. Not a lot of room.

Chasers on the other hand can do just fine running their two least expensive heroes, Me-Burq-Sa and Nerak. Total: 320. Wrap it in Bacon for good measure, and Syvarris or the Krav fit in perfectly in a 'standard' competitive game.

[Taeblewalker]

You might want to run Finn with one squad and Thorgrim with another, so you can have boosted Attack and Defense with alternating squads.