Remodels of old figures

[Revdyer]

Having two different sets of sculpts, molds, and a slightly more complex distribution system, would, at least to some extent, increase the cost of manufacture and therefore the cost to the consumer. How much, in dollars per pack, would it be worth to you to have those different sculpts?

[Punisher_fan]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

Having two different sets of sculpts, molds, and a slightly more complex distribution system, would, at least to some extent, increase the cost of manufacture and therefore the cost to the consumer. How much, in dollars per pack, would it be worth to you to have those different sculpts?

Let's eliminate the distribution aspect because that could use improvement anyway. Warehousing is where the main snag would be and it's simply a matter of stock arrangement, which really isn't a problem.

That's a good question Rev, mainly because it's hard to know what the real cost of these things would be to Hasbro, but it wouldn't be a anywhere near a cost high enough to justify "dollars" per pack. With mass manufacturing of the type that Hasbro is doing, which only gets cheaper with time, the cost to them is probably far less than a quarter per pack. Let's take a step back and take a look at what we're actually getting product-wise: Injection molded plastic with about the same level of detail as a pack of army men.

If they want to charge an extra $.50 per pack so be it. Even though even that amount would be highway robbery. The largest real cost to them, in the actual production process, is more than likely the packaging for the figures.

EDIT: I found an engineering site with a calculator for making parts with injection molds. I put in data for the highest molding and engineering standards, eight molds, at a press run of 5000, and a plate 48"x48"x2". The price quoted was less than $800 dollars from a Canadian company.
(The cost goes up for less molds per plate, down for more. 5000 was the minimum press run,costs go down for more. Costs go up for larger plate, down for smaller.)

[Revdyer]

Well, if it were fifty cents increase (this is outside of my area of expertise, obviously), I'd be in favor of two, three, or four different sets of sculpts per figure or squad. On the other hand, if it meant paying five dollars more per pack, I would not be in favor of that. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the gaming industry to know if there are analogies in other games, where multiple versions of the same component (doll) are sold.

[Punisher_fan]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

Well, if it were fifty cents increase (this is outside of my area of expertise, obviously), I'd be in favor of two, three, or four different sets of sculpts per figure or squad. On the other hand, if it meant paying five dollars more per pack, I would not be in favor of that. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the gaming industry to know if there are analogies in other games, where multiple versions of the same component (doll) are sold.

I'm glad you made that "doll" comment, it ignited a light bulb as to how to make my point. Think back to the 80's when every store was slam-bang full of G.I. Joe. Every "doll" was different at a couple bucks per, and they needed to be assembled after molding and thrown in a pack with little plastic guns.

[Revdyer]

I thought about action figures when I posted that comment. I don't know if the same economics or marketing works for game items. It would be interesting to see, though.

[bad_calvin]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

I thought about action figures when I posted that comment. I don't know if the same economics or marketing works for game items. It would be interesting to see, though.

There "could" be some reasons to go for new sculpts.
1- marketing gimic
2- molds need to be redone
3- Sculptor said "yeah, I can re-work the master a bit"
4- new IP may be on the way(cartoon?) that they want those characters to look better since they will be representing the product.

etc, There are valid reasons for doing it. Not sure if any of these apply. It's just my 2 cents.

[jcb231]

Originally Posted by Punisher_fan

I'm glad you made that "doll" comment, it ignited a light bulb as to how to make my point. Think back to the 80's when every store was slam-bang full of G.I. Joe. Every "doll" was different at a couple bucks per, and they needed to be assembled after molding and thrown in a pack with little plastic guns.

Action figures are no longer at tehir peak though. In the 80's video games existed and were popular but had not yet grabbed hold of the public and become the juggernaut they are today. Kids still played with toys, and for a longer period of time than kids today. The 80's were like action figure nirvana....I doubt any company could afford to keep as many sculpts in roatation as they did back then. Star Wars had like 90-odd figures, Super Powers had a lot, Master of the Universe, GI Joe...and a lot of those line continually kept the core characters, in their original versions, on the shelf. I remember being able to walk into a TRU as a kid and see the entire Super Powers line...dozens of different figures and vehicles and playsets, all on the shelves at once. Companies just don't do that anymore...they rotate through waves of figures and often don't re-release older waves at all. They certainly don't keep tons and tons of sculpts in lay at all times. I'm thankful Heroscape is able to re-produce the old waves once in a while...I know they wouldn't be able to support keeping multiple versions of those waves in play.

[Punisher_fan]

Originally Posted by jcb231

Action figures are n.......I know they wouldn't be able to support keeping multiple versions of those waves in play.

The whole purpose of the action figure analogy was to point out that these Heroscape figures don't cost an arm and a leg to produce. Having multiple sculpts will cost them a pittance if it even costs anything. It's a matter of a line change on the molding machine. Press X amount of figures, stop to make a line change, press X amount of different figures. They are already doing it. The same machines that presses Wave 3 presses Wave 1 presses Wave 5... etc.. It's just a line change.

If they are going to run into a problem keeping multiple sculpts in play then they'll run into the same problem with singular sculpts.It'll just take a bit longer. Would you not like some variety to your orc horde or what-have-you?

[DaveyNY]

Why make it so complicated?

Why not just use the same molds and give the figures new paint jobs.
At least at first glance of a MAP in play, the combatants would appear to be different.

That's almost become an industry standard for many "SPECIAL OFFERS" and "EXCLUSIVES" with Action Figures..

I'm pretty much a newbie to the HS game, but didn't Wally-World have something along that line last year?

Doing this would at least keep the retail cost from having to go up much (if at all), and would help "Non-Artisticlly-Talanted" gamers (like myself, I make better looking figures when I 'spill' the paint rather than usin' a brush!), build better looking armies.

Anyway, the darn system is expensive enough already, I noticed today while checking out my local TRU that they are jacking the price up $3.00 on the current Master Set starting in March. ($39.99 going to $42.99).
They had three MS's on a lower shelf with the old price and a blank spot up on a higher shelf with a new price sticker... gees.....
(At first I thought it was a reserved spot for the Marvel set but the tag had "HS-Valkrie-MS#1" printed on it and the same sku number on it.)

Guess this means that MS Set #2 comming later this year is gonna be pricy too.

I should probably think about going back to working part-time at a toy store...

[Aldin]

Welcome to the boards, DaveyNY!

On behalf of our figure repainting and cost conscious community I extend to you a laurel and a hearty handshake.

All three exclusives in the Heroscape world have been repaints of existing figures. I believe HS Codex #4 has instructions on repainting a Knight of Weston to make Sir Hawthorne and I'm sure others can help in converting Vipers to Onyx Vipers and Swogs to Nerak. We're a very artistic community that way

~Aldin, who is still considering a beginner's paint set

[Kuprin]

Originally Posted by Punisher_fan

Let's eliminate the distribution aspect because that could use improvement anyway. Warehousing is where the main snag would be and it's simply a matter of stock arrangement, which really isn't a problem.

That's a good question Rev, mainly because it's hard to know what the real cost of these things would be to Hasbro, but it wouldn't be a anywhere near a cost high enough to justify "dollars" per pack. With mass manufacturing of the type that Hasbro is doing, which only gets cheaper with time, the cost to them is probably far less than a quarter per pack. Let's take a step back and take a look at what we're actually getting product-wise: Injection molded plastic with about the same level of detail as a pack of army men.

If they want to charge an extra $.50 per pack so be it. Even though even that amount would be highway robbery. The largest real cost to them, in the actual production process, is more than likely the packaging for the figures.

EDIT: I found an engineering site with a calculator for making parts with injection molds. I put in data for the highest molding and engineering standards, eight molds, at a press run of 5000, and a plate 48"x48"x2". The price quoted was less than $800 dollars from a Canadian company.
(The cost goes up for less molds per plate, down for more. 5000 was the minimum press run,costs go down for more. Costs go up for larger plate, down for smaller.)

Quoted for truth. Seriously, I know most people are utterly ignorant to the actual cost of things, but the majority of our money doesn't pay for manufacturing costs, it pays for several hundred million dollars in management and director salaries at Hasbro, and it pays for gross inefficiency. One of these days the masses will become too stupid to live, and the rest of us will realise what's going on.

[TOG]

Originally Posted by Kuprin

Quoted for truth. Seriously, I know most people are utterly ignorant to the actual cost of things, but the majority of our money doesn't pay for manufacturing costs, it pays for several hundred million dollars in management and director salaries at Hasbro, and it pays for gross inefficiency. One of these days the masses will become too stupid to live, and the rest of us will realise what's going on.

I don't think that $800 would include the cost of machining the mold, only injecting the mold

Here are some number to back this up from a mold builder faq:

4. How long does it take to build an injection mold?Depending on complexity and our tool room load, it can range from 2 to 12 weeks.

6. How much does a mold cost?Again, varying greatly on complexity, quality, and size, a mold can cost anywhere from $2,000-$3,000 for a simple, single cavity mold, up to $60,000-$100,000 or more for a high production, multi- cavity mold made with hardened tool steel. Typically, the molds we build are in the $8,000 -$20,000 range.

A simple, one cavity mold would be something like plastic cup, nothing like a miniature figure.