HeroScape is coming back!

[Good Pig]

Marvel, DnD, Magic the Gathering, and Star Wars if it became a licensed product for Heroscape are all existing IP that may need additional complexity to represent the rich worlds and characters that they represent.

The advantage that Heroscape has is that it's canon is primarily developed on the fly by the game designers. There's nothing forcing new characters to be more complex than they need to be. An occasional design that has four powers isn't a huge deal. An occasional power that's a head scratcher isn't a big deal. But I agree that the main draw of Heroscape is that it isn't Warhammer or another game with a more complex rule set. I can have my non-gamer friends, nieces, father-in-law jump in on a game without being intimidated. That's what makes this game enduring.

Are the AoA designs slightly more complex than original designs? Yes. Is that going to kill the game? No. Are some die hard fans worried that this is a slippery slope taking the game in the wrong direction? Yes. And I'll add I'm one of them.

[wriggz]

So I put all my OM on EJ. But then I want to use the Knave's so I move some of the OM to them
Then before taking their turn I can either use the captine they chose or another pirate hero. Of course some of the pirates have cheerleading like the dwarf. But then boarding party is pretty good so keep an OM on EJ.

Don't get me wrong, this sounds fun for ME, but my more casual friend would be intimidated playing this army and likely confused and annoyed playing against it. Especially after playing an army like the 4th mass (which could be played with a flowchart) or the minions.

Heroscape to me is like thematic chess, where I'm mostly focusing on the board, but the more complexity you add has me focusing on the cards more. I expect the pirates are at the higher end of the complexity spectrum, but I'd rather not get to AotP levels since as mentioned I already own that game and unmatched.

Sometimes you feel like playing Twilight Imperium some time you just want Risk.

[Grungebob]

I don’t think there’s anything particularly ‘complex’ about cards that have too many abilities crowding the card space, I just think they’re bothersome, and for me, I find them less interesting than cards that manage to do more with less.

Slapping 5 slices of cheese on a burger doesn’t make it a better burger than say 1 or 2 slices. It just makes it sloppier and cheesier.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by wriggz

Heroscape to me is like thematic chess, where I'm mostly focusing on the board, but the more complexity you add has me focusing on the cards more.

I hear you. A balance is best. Classic/C3V/SoV/Renegade is not C3G. "Thematic" is where it's at . . .

[Cyborgs Gaming]

I'll jump in here with just classic 'scape examples:

Major Q9, Sybarris, and Marro Stingers all only have one ability each. Yet those 3 are some of the most powerful units in all of classic scape with Syvarris being from the original master set.

Tul Bak Ra, Estivara, and Omnicron repulsers all have 3 abilities each and are rarely played. Though I personally do like using repulsers because they are cool.

Sonya Esenwein already has 4 abilities. Granted one of them is flying and two of the others are specificity having to do with her Hubfu. However I point her out because she's only 45 points and has that. Also because I don't find her to be overly complex.

That being said. I agree that Master of tides is overly complex and shouldn't have all 4 of those abilities. I think just not having that familiar beast bonding thing would have made her fit the theme of water control better and removed a lot of complexity. Also probably wouldn't even really need to lower her points that much as she seems a bit OP for those points right now. However I haven't played her at all yet, so maybe not.

Also I'd rather have extra pickles than extra cheese anyway

[Nukatha]

I would have given the Familiar-intended units 'Dryan Wizard Bonding'. There was room on their cards.
Or perhaps a variant that says "When you reveal an order marker', so that Beast Bonding couldn't activate three units in a turn.

Slapping 5 slices of cheese on a burger doesn’t make it a better burger than say 1 or 2 slices. It just makes it sloppier and cheesier.

You clearly aren't from Wisconsin.

[Tornado]

If simple one power cards are where it is at, why are those type of designs not dominating C3V and SoV?

[Shiftrex]

I would challenge someone if they think they can actually get a 1 power design through the SoV lol.

[Myriadite]

Originally Posted by Shiftrex

.....

Edit: Also I'm going to add that comparing putting wound markers on a base, or next to a unit to a dexterity game is a hoot lol. Gotta play some competitive street fighter II turbo edition and then we can talk about what dexterity looks like. I understand the preference but it is by no means an act of dexterity. I've put wounds next to uncommon figures myself before when I didn't have the 'official stickers' that are supposed to be used. This is just an echo chambery space, those of us that have different wants or preferences generally don't talk because we very much feel like we just shouldn't be playing the game anymore.

As long as they stick to only two-life squads, perhaps a small hole on the miniature's back for something like a Battleship peg would work well.

[brak88]

Originally Posted by Shiftrex

I would challenge someone if they think they can actually get a 1 power design through the SoV lol.

M.A.R.S. Only one from what I've seen, but it's actually a pretty recent unit.

[STAROCEAN980]

A bit of a roller coaster of emotions. I've been lurking reading the news for a good while, so this is a bit of an opinion dump.

I'll say I've been part of the group that was stuck on painted figures, and that had kept me from backing the AoA campaign with Avalon. As excited as I was to see the game have a new chance at life, I just wasn't going to spend $200 plus pick up the painting hobby to get into it. I like that Renegade has gone with two options for painted and unpainted, though I think I might have been fine with a lower quality paint job to cut costs down some more. I wish we could have seen an example of what the rejected cheaper paint route really looked like just to help understand the pricing better. As much as I understand we're not in the mid 2000's anymore, the nearly double price just to upgrade the 20 figures of the master set to be painted is definitely a punch to the wallet.

I may pre-order the battle box and then think about the master set later if I'm feeling good enough about things. I like the idea of the big tree in the jungle set, but I need to see a real picture of it on a table to decide on spending $50 for the set. Plus the battle box already comes with 2, even if I assume they'll be the smallest size. (And I'm still puzzled as to why they don't feature them in the picture on the back of the box. But I guess they don't show the wellspring tiles there either.)

As for the discussion about complexity/keywords; I don't mind them making stuff like Flying a keyword, nor adding a few more abilities to some units. I think it just depends how it's handled. Like I thought Shiori's special attack was more complex to read than the total of all 4 abilities on Ewashia. At least in her case each individual ability doesn't take much to understand, they just look like a lot at a glance. It looks like they'll make for some fun gameplay and synergies with other units, so I'm all for that. I guess you could drop the beast bonding skill and she'd still be fine, though.

Hopefully the new launch will go well, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. It seems like they still want to aim for that broader audience like the original run of the game did, but I feel like the offerings on hand may end up with more-hardcore hobbyist types being the ones who actually bother to try the game. Generally meaning those who are willing to either paint stuff themselves or willing to shell out enough for the painted sets. I just hope the average newcomer doesn't get double gated from picking it up, by either the cheaper sets being unpainted, or the painted ones being out of price range.

[wriggz]

I would not worry about unpainted deterring people. This is not unpainted to be painted. This is unpainted to be played like countless other games on the market. I think Heroscapers from back in the day were spoiled (not like a bad kid/ but like we got something too good for this world). The landscape is different today and for youngins there is less barrier to play.

The real challenge is the scope of the landscape. There are so many games competing for attention. I've always said Heroscapes niche is as a simple skirmish game like Warhammer. Something with simple rules and powers that you can play with a 7 or eight year old, or when you want something that demands less mental load. Something that is fun and filled with creativity, wonder and with the terrain.. awe. To many rules for me reduces that wonder, as it becomes more of an intellectual pursuit.

That said the new units are growing on me the more I review the cards and I'm looking forward to seeing how the enter into my play testing rotation and game nights with friends and kids. I'm actually interested how they will inspire new customs or spur me to review some of my old designs. I may have to just class all my pirates to buccaneers to avoid the balance issues.