The Book of Hobgoblin

[Karat]

Yea

[Scapemage]

Yea.

[Tornado]

Yea

[johnny139]

Thanks - this passes!

[johnny139]

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Hobgoblin

Army Test
Map: Spooky Swamp (Custom Map)
Units: Hobgoblin@250, Nebula (590 Points) vs. Daredevil, Punisher, Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) (590 Points)

Spoiler Alert!

Summary

ROUND 1: Nebula moves in and then Hobgoblin swarms, but Punisher gets on height pretty quick and tears Nebula apart. In two turns, she's dead. But Hobgoblin take his chance to bomb Punisher, zoom around, and start pestering him with his SA - he takes two wounds. Daredevil comes in and engages too.

ROUND 2: Punisher deals a wound from the low ground. The Goblin zooms around and deals two more to Punisher, then falls back onto the high ground. Punisher can't hit him back, and after another Pestering Pursuit, he kills off Punisher then ducks behind some ruins on height. Daredevil comes around and engages... despite the low ground, though, he gets 5 skull and Hobgoblin only manages one shield. Tough break!

Who won?: Red and Black wins; Punisher destroyed, all others unharmed, 2 Rounds.

Thoughts: Very quick match! Punisher is a beast - Nebula couldn't stand up to his defense, but Hobgoblin got the initiative pretty quick in return. If he his luck hadn't been so awful when Daredevil came in, I think he could have sweeped up the whole game himself.

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Army Test
Map: Spooky Swamp (Custom Map)
Units: Hobgoblin@250, Hired Guns, Street Thugs x4.25 (700 Points) vs. Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Iron Fist (700 Points)

Spoiler Alert!

Summary

ROUND 1: The Hired Guns set up on height while the Fighters move over. Hobgoblin and the Thugs come into play, but Spider-Man and Luke get the jump first - they manage to take out two of the Hired Guns. Hobgoblin tries to focus on Spider-Man, but despite getting Pumpkin Bombed he dodges every attack from him and a Thug. Three thugs blast Luke from height and deal one wound.

ROUND 2: Goblin bombs Luke and lets the two remaining Guns blast him, but they only deal one wound. Luke takes out one more Gun but stupidly, no one else is in sight range. So Hobgoblin takes another turn, fails to wound with his SA despite the Gas. Iron Fist leaps in and kills two Thugs. Hobgoblin bombs and deals one to Cage, but it's the Thugs who come in and clean house.

ROUND 3: Iron Fist is the next target - Hobgoblin bombs him then lets the Thugs open fire, dealing three wounds to the poor warrior. He gets onto height and heals one, killing two Thugs. The Thugs and Goblin move on Spider-Man, who takes two wounds but then senses away from the enemy behind a ruin. He moves next, hops back in, and hits the Goblin for one. But Gobby is next up, and he bombs and Pursues Spider-Man again... this time, his rolls are low as hell and he's taken out by the Pursuit alone. The Thugs blast Iron Fist but do no damage.

ROUND 4: Iron Fist swings at Hobgoblin but does no damage. Then Gobby and the Thugs let loose, but do no damage. Iron Fist again swings hard at Hobgoblin and deals a single wound. But then the Hobgoblin decides again bomb him, again Pursue, and bring him up to 4 Wounds. Then the Street Thugs come in and, well... goodnight Iron Fist.

Who won?: Goblin Army wins; 2 Wounds on Hobgoblin, 3 Hired Guns destroyed, 4 Street Thugs destroyed, all others unharmed, 4 Rounds.

Thoughts: Great showing here! The Fighters kind of stumbled into his trap, which isn't a great move; the Criminals have an easy time getting onto height. Hobgoblin is an amazing Spider-Man counter-draft, and the other Fighters don't hold up great against swarm attacks - the Guns blasted Luke, then Hobgoblin shook down Spider-Man, and finally he and the Thugs tear Iron Fist apart.

Pumpkin Gas is a LOT of fun and feels very potent, while the Pursuit is super punishing against pretty much any single hero - I think that's the dial I'd turn down first.

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Army Test
Map: Spooky Swamp (Custom Map)
Units: Hobgoblin@250, Black Tarantula, Hired Guns, Street Thugs x3 (905 Points) vs. Jean Grey, Phoenix, Dark Phoenix (900 Points)

Spoiler Alert!

Summary

ROUND 1: Guns go on height and the Thugs bring Hobby and Tarantula forward. Jean hurls herself into action - she does no damage to Hobgoblin in her attack. Taranrula deals one, and then the Thugs deal another - but that triggers Phoenix Fire and kills two Thugs.

ROUND 2: Tarantula tries to engage Jean, but is Gripped down. He still hits her from one on height, though, but her Phoenix Fire wounds Hobgoblin. Jean drags Hobgoblin down with her Telekinetics but does no damage with his attack. The Guns move on Jean - she takes no wounds, but when moving onto height on her turn, an LEA from Hobgoblin finishes her off - Tarantula takes a Phoenix Fire wound and Phoenix emerges. Hobgoblin tries to Pursue her but does no damage, despite the Pumpkin Gas.

ROUND 3: Phoenix moves first, tries to Blast and attack Taranrula, but does nothing. The Guns move off height but in perfect firing view, and they manage to sneak one wound in on Phoenix. Jean gets the Guns all in a line and Psionic Blasts three of them, knocking two behind a ruin and killing one, then attacking and killing another. Hobgoblin bombs and attacks her from height, but does no damage. She pursues the Guns but neither blasts nor wounds them. Then Hobgoblin comes in, Pumpkin Bombs Phoenix, and lets the last two Guns blow her away... though they only deal one wound, and Phoenix Fire wounds him in return.

ROUND 4: A Psionic Blast takes out the last two Hired Guns, then attacking Hobgoblin for one. He flies away and peppers her with Pursuit, though he uses it to hide behind a handful of Thugs. Phoenix zooms in and wounds Tarantula. He attacks her for one wound, then the Thugs deal another, bringing Phoenix up to 4 Wounds. Phoenix throws Tarantula across a ruin, dealing one wound, and then kills a Thug with her normal attack. Neither Hobgoblin nor the Thugs can deal another wound, despite a Gas Pumpkin.

ROUND 5: Tarantula and the Thugs move on her, but do no damage. Phoenix blasts him from above and deals two to Tarantula. Hobgoblin Gasses and Pursues Phoenix, finishing her off and bringing out... Dark Phoenix! Thugs do nothing to the force of nature. Tarantula heals Hobgoblin, then climbs up and attacks DP for nothing, and the Thugs do the same.

ROUND 6: Hobgoblin wounds Phoenix and the Thugs follow up with another wound. Dark Phoenix kills two Thugs with her aura, but can't hurt Tarantula. He heals Hobgoblin for one, but he and the Thugs can't crack her flames. She wades into the midst and manages to burn Tarantula, kill two Thugs, and then blast Tarantula for two, bringing him up to 4.

But she gave up height... and it's prime opportunity for the Goblin Gang. Hobgoblin gasses her and goes onto height, then attacks for one. The Thugs surround her, two get height, and they manage to deal two wounds among them. Dark Phoenix is up to 5 Wounds! Her passive aura burns both Tarantula (killing him) and hurls Hobgoblin into the mud beside her. She hits him for two, so he's up to 4 Wounds.

ROUND 7: Bad luck on the initiative switch as DP wins. She burns away a Thug and then kills Hobgoblin with her normal attack. The Thugs try to keep their distance and blast her, but do no damage... and her next turn, she manages to burn three to ashes and then blast the last with her normal attack.

Who won?: Dark Phoenix wins, 5 Wounds on Dark Phoenix, Jean Grey and Phoenix destroyed, 7 Rounds.

Thoughts: This one was really interesting. Hobgoblin had a lot of interesting choices to make, and managed to manuever around pretty well - it was great being able to stay away from Phoenix Fire then take his last move next to Tarantula to heal up next turn. That being said, Dark Phoenix is just a bad matchup for him - she's got consistently high defenses that -1 just isn't as effective against. They put up a good fight, though, which impressed me.

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THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: He's very narrow in scope - I think he really needs the Street Thugs and, to a lesser extent, the Hired Guns, to shine. He's absolutely a Spider-Man killer and wreaks havoc on mid-size heroes in general, which I think is appropriate, but hits a big wall against a lot of defensive units, and frankly is pretty frail, too. I think he may need a cost bump, say 20-30 points, but I'm not sure if Game 2 was more luck or more typical.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: First of all, he's the Street Thugs' best friend. I can only imagine how potent that pairing would be on asphalt/concrete against guys like Luke Cage. It's an interesting place for him, and I think his Gas Pumpkin is variable enough that future units will also benefit a lot.

Hired Guns didn't impress me here. It's a fairly small map with a lot of hiding places, which is a big factor, but it's always tough to set up and honestly, with his Pursuit, it's not a big difference between the Guns (eight attacks of 3, but a Unique Squad and they're tough to position) and the Thugs (three attacks of 3, four attacks of 2, but a Common Squad and also movement). Still a combination I'd want to see tested but I'm not concerned about it being a broken pairing.

I'm going to submit him for a price bump - either at 270 (pairing with the Hired Guns for 400) or 275 (paired with three sets of Street Thugs for 500). If that's feeling too much, I think his Pursuit is the first dial to turn down, in a few ways:

- Free movement before his attacks, instead of after, to prevent kiting.
- Movement must be TOWARD the defending figure, never away (but it's fun to hit and run with him so I wouldn't recommend it).
- Down to 3 attacks of 2 dice, or maybe a 3-2-1 sequence.

His Pumpkin is fun and his Glider works great, and I wouldn't mess with the stats, either.

[IAmBatman]

Is it thematically accurate for Hobby to be significantly more powerful than Spidey (275 to 250?). Genuine question, as I don't know, but my impression was that it wouldn't be.

I'm in favor of not letting him kite too much in general, just because that's the type of thing that can lead to negative play experiences. I know we have other figures that do, so not a deal breaker, just probably not a bad idea to tweak that.

I'm not convinced the results you have there really support a 25 point cost bump, though. He's seeming decent as is to me after skimming what you have, but I might've missed a key detail?

[Yodaking]

With Spider-Man being 250, doesn't that seem a little high for him? I'd consider bringing some of his base stats down. Normal range down to 3 to match the SA range, or even 1 and leave the SA his only ranged option. Defense down to 4, he has 1 shield blocks all damage vs. ranged normal attacks and with flying will often have high ground. Outside of the agility granted by the glider making him hard to hit, I never saw him as all that tough. Maybe make the SA two attacks of 3, instead of three attacks of 3, since he bonds with a 4 figure squad and subtracts 1 from one figures defense for those 4 additional attacks.

[johnny139]

Hobgoblin only lost the first game based on bad luck - even with Nebula contributing absolutely nothing, it wouldn't have surprised me to see him take down Dardevil, Punisher, and Cassandra single-handedly. Second game was a complete stomp, and the third game - against an Event Hero that's tailor-made to wipe out his army - they held their own. It doesn't read that impressive, but it was very oppressive to play against him with mid-size heroes.

I think high 200s is valid for him. He's essentially "Green Goblin but better in every way," so I think having any of his stats below our GG's would put up a flag for me. I think 275-280 would be the absolute ceiling, but I'd put his floor at like... 240.

[IAmBatman]

Is he superior to Green Goblin? I always had the impression that Green Goblin was the real deal and Hobgoblin was more of a pretender/lesser threat? If it's canonical for him to be significantly more of a threat than Green Goblin, I'm OK with him being higher 200s than Spidey.

[johnny139]

Hobgoblin is definitely a pretender but more of a threat... well in a way. Green Goblin is probably more of a specific threat to Peter Parker, since he knows his secret identity and is psychotically obsessed. Hobgoblin is a threat to the city in general.

From Wikipedia:

In the beginning of his career Kingsley had no superhuman abilities, but possessed a keen analytical intellect with enough knowledge of chemistry and biology to understand the notes of Norman Osborn regarding the Green Goblin formula originally conceived by Dr. Mendel Stromm. Kingsley not only recreated the formula, but perfected it by removing its side-effects. Further, he updated many of Osborn's various inventions. Kingsley was a master of hypnosis and drug induced mind control. Kingsley was skilled in the management of both criminal organizations and legally run professional businesses.

Due to the green chemical solution that he bathed in, Kingsley possesses superhuman strength on par with Spider-Man and stronger than Norman Osborn. Likewise, his reflexes, speed, stamina, and intellect were also enhanced to superhuman levels.

[IAmBatman]

OK, so physically better than Norman. Is he as smart/devious as Norman?

[johnny139]

I would say smarter. They're about on par in a criminal "evil plan" sort of way, but Norman is more likely to go off the rails and end up hoist by his own petard. Hobgoblin is the sort of guy that doesn't fall into traps and is fine taking a loss today so he can win tomorrow.

Like, one-on-one, Osborn might be able to beat Kingsley. But Kingsley would lose the battle and win the war.