Age of Annihilation - Backer Trend and Discussion

[Myriadite]

I check back on the campaign probably more than I need to, but I am appreciating the steady pace it is going. So far, there haven't been any "the backer count has stopped in its tracks" moments. Having crossed the 2,000 backers threshold is encouraging.

[Good Pig]

Originally Posted by Myriadite

I check back on the campaign probably more than I need to, but I am appreciating the steady pace it is going. So far, there haven't been any "the backer count has stopped in its tracks" moments. Having crossed the 2,000 backers threshold is encouraging.

[caps]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

OK, I think I see the disconnect. We're saying that the fact that they're doing a bad job of marketing to newer players suggests that the don't care about new markets. You agree they're doing a bad job of marketing to newer players but believe they do care about new markets and hopefully their actions will catch up with their intent eventually?

So kind of an intent versus competence argument?

You've got it. I don't understand why their actions have worked out the way they have, but I suspect it has to do with Avalon Hill being a pretty small shop (I sometimes wonder if Intergalactic Patrick is not just the Director/VP of Marketing, but actually their entire Marketing Department?). So it could be they had too much to do to meet the deadline Hasbro gave them for launching the campaign, or it could be they prioritized the wrong things. I'm not sure. But the verbal statements they have made tell me that they intend for the game to be inclusive of both new and old players. They have some work to do on getting new players on board. Luckily I've been able to show the game (and the campaign) to a lot of new players that are excited about it. Ideally the campaign page should cover some of that ground as well.

Originally Posted by RobertDD

I haven’t been on this site in years. I still have all my Heroscape (a complete set with many dupes and at least 3 of every common, plus enough terrain to run a small tournament) and will never get rid of it.

I won’t back this. It’s $250 for unpainted plastics. No way!

Ok, I backed it.

Should I buy two sets?

If it's anything like the HeroQuest set was, it will be worth a lot after it comes out, especially the exclusives, even if they release the same set (sans exclusives) to retail.

I'd buy 2+. (I already bought at least two)

Originally Posted by rudyvalentine

Not following the discord to hear directly from the team, but any word if the box is really going to be that ugly? I understand the painted minis issue, but are they just fundamentally against all color?

We were told this is the WIP box cover:

Originally Posted by SuperSamyon

Yeah I saw that you were getting dogpilled on. What's unfortunate is that many companies pay a lot of money to research the mindset of their customers. Avalon Hill is receiving that for free so any silencing of opinion by the fans only hurts the marketing team's ability to pivot their plan to respond to customer feedback.

I do understand that negative feedback can be a killjoy but it's much better to receive it during the campaign when you can still adjust vs. after the campaign in a post mortem which at that point its only useful for your next campaign.

We covered this earlier this week. The team has seen every single kind of negative feedback imaginable for this campaign already. I'm not sure what purpose further negative feedback is supposed to serve. Saying the same things over again (more loudly?) doesn't make them any more persuasive, or change the underlying constraints that made things the way they are.

[IAmBatman]

It was also confirmed on Discord that the box would be in color.

[Mr Migraine]

Considering we have a lot of time left in the campaign, I am starting to think "Phase 1" of this campaign (before they started getting press, limited information for new players, etc.) was deliberately intended to test the market and understand the true size of the "actively engaged" Heroscape player-base – the so-called whales who will buy a new set without knowing all of the details. They have measured that by now, thanks to this campaign, and now they still have time to churn out additional marketing content (and press) that will help encourage the broader market to pick it up...most importantly, the people who used to know about Heroscape in the 2000s but haven't remained engaged. It's an IP with a lot of nostalgia behind it. In my circle of friends at high school, many people knew at least one person who had the RotV set in their family's game closet.

Back to my original point, I'm guessing this was a lazy market-sizing test that had the added benefit of buying them an extra two weeks to produce marketing materials, rulebook stuff, card previews, etc.

[CapAp]

Originally Posted by caps

We covered this earlier this week. The team has seen every single kind of negative feedback imaginable for this campaign already. I'm not sure what purpose further negative feedback is supposed to serve. Saying the same things over again (more loudly?) doesn't make them any more persuasive, or change the underlying constraints that made things the way they are.

I promised myself I’d stay in lurk mode after being told my opinion was so ridiculous that it must have been sarcasm, but I feel this warrants response.

I think the issue is that nobody (at least in here) is saying anything “over and over”. lots of us are saying our thing once. You’re *seeing* the same things over and over because those things are common criticisms.

The purpose this serves (in a “community”) is for everyone to be able to feel that their opinion has value, even if goes against the majority consensus.

For my part, my first post taught me that this is not a place where disagreeing with the groupthink is encouraged. If you’re supportive of the HasLab, by all means post about your support as often as you’d like. If you’re not, maybe go to the FB or discord I guess, because that’s where the “haters” hang out.

Which is weird to me. We all bothered to seek out a a fan site for a game that hasn’t been commercially available for 15 years. By definition you have to assume we’re all big supporters. Does anyone here want the campaign to fail? Of course not. We just wanted it to provide us with a product we desired - and if we don’t feel like we were offered that, we wanted to feel like someone hears our disappointment. A fan community seemed like a more constructive place for that to me, but I quickly learned otherwise.

[Mr Migraine]

Feedback is a blessing for Avalon Hill. They read everything we say, and it's useful to hear from dozens of people, even if there are 3–4 common themes across every piece of criticism.

Edit: because they haven't yet posted a poll/survey for gathering this type of feedback (that I know of yet?), then community forum posts are the next best way to get it.

[caps]

Originally Posted by CapAp

I think the issue is that nobody (at least in here) is saying anything “over and over”. lots of us are saying our thing once. You’re *seeing* the same things over and over because those things are common criticisms.

Right, if multiple people say the same thing, that still counts as saying the same thing over and over / more loudly.

Originally Posted by CapAp

The purpose this serves (in a “community”) is for everyone to be able to feel that their opinion has value, even if goes against the majority consensus.

For my part, my first post taught me that this is not a place where disagreeing with the groupthink is encouraged. If you’re supportive of the HasLab, by all means post about your support as often as you’d like. If you’re not, maybe go to the FB or discord I guess, because that’s where the “haters” hang out.

Which is weird to me. We all bothered to seek out a a fan site for a game that hasn’t been commercially available for 15 years. By definition you have to assume we’re all big supporters. Does anyone here want the campaign to fail? Of course not. We just wanted it to provide us with a product we desired - and if we don’t feel like we were offered that, we wanted to feel like someone hears our disappointment. A fan community seemed like a more constructive place for that to me, but I quickly learned otherwise.

I believe that people have more to offer than the same (sometimes constructive) criticisms we've seen before, so from my perspective asking people not to repeat the same arguments over again is not the same thing as rejecting the people themselves.

Regardless, I am glad to see people joining the site. The community here is a truly special place, with remarkable longevity.

Maybe we need a "Haslab Campaign Feedback Thread" where people can leave their complaints, criticisms, and job-well-dones (constructive or otherwise) without distracting from other ideas, topics, etc.

[caps]

Part of my commentary on all the negativity probably has to do with my general life outlook/philosophy, but I think it's one that's not shared by the majority here and that is making it maybe come across differently than I intend. I'll have to think that over before I comment on that topic again.

[Rÿchean]

I just want to say thank you to caps for being so dedicated to this effort.

Regardless of where anyone stands on this, the community is doing their best to get the word out and ensure people have accurate information. Caps has been a HUGE part of that ongoing effort.

Thank you.

[GamerDad74]

Originally Posted by caps

Right, if multiple people say the same thing, that still counts as saying the same thing over and over / more loudly.

Not to be contentious, but as a company are you more likely to pay attention to 1 person telling you something or 100? I think repetition means something. And ANY company should welcome critical feedback--that's one big way to improve. If you think everybody likes it, why change anything?

Originally Posted by CapAp

Maybe we need a "Haslab Campaign Feedback Thread" where people can leave their complaints, criticisms, and job-well-dones (constructive or otherwise) without distracting from other ideas, topics, etc.

I would vote for this. That would also likely help Hasbro's team to find that type of feedback in a consolidated place (at least on here). Although, truth be told, isn't that what "Backer Trend and Discussion" already implies?

[wriggz]

I think the response to the campaign has been fair. I've backed my share of car payment games and it was mostly due to the presentation. TBH if this was not heroscape and I didn't already have a mass of terrain I would have moved past it. That is disappointing. Even more disappointing I don't think I would have ever known about it since I only lurk the ks offers occasionally and would have NEVER looked at a haslab page.

I've read some of the industry articles that have been produced and they are by no means glowing. This is not negative, this is reporting.

Look at any multi-million dollar ks and compare to this one. The heroscape content is comparable or superior for the price, but the presentation is not there. Videos, game play, painted mini renders, rules and card previews. Hell they should have 3 or more action shots with 3 differn maps to show off the terrain.

There are so many small things they could do with a modest art dept or reach out to the fans to create, that they simply aren't doing.