Heroscape and Magic: the Gathering - Inventive Concepts

[thezandcshow]

As many of you know, I am a fan of Magic: the Gathering and Heroscape alike. I've noticed several connections between them, and some of Magic's concepts could become relevant in Heroscape.

Multi-Faction Units are basically like multicolor creatures in Magic. These would work for two or more factions at a time, and bring new mechanics to the game. For example, if two abilities were to target units of seperate factions, a multi-faction unit would be affected by both, be it positive or negative.

Energy, like Mana in Magic, is used to pay for artifacts and spells(explained later), and is put into the form of counters that you put one onto a creature of your choice on your turn. They could come in boxes with the artifacts or sets of spells, with an amount equal to the total required to play the one of highest cost. The energy is removed from the unit once it is used, but can be re-used on other ones. It is developed from whatever faction is developing it or can be colorless for generic spells and artifacts.

Artifacts can be compared to glyphs or the Fortress Door. Unlike glyphs, they are figures themselves and can be put onto the card of whatever picks it up (it is picked up when you're adjacent to it). They can give special benefits to the "equipped" unit, whether activated or not.

Spells are card-only abilities, but can be used by any unit, as long as it shares one of its factions. They are used through the buildup of energy, and generic spells can be used by any unit with enough energy, be it colorless or of their faction. They would be bought in box sets coming with energy counters as well, containing either generic spells or faction spells.

Positive/Negative Counters can put unexpected spins on the functioning of a unit, either increasing or decreasing attack, defense, range, or movement. Usually it could come from a unit ability, an artifact or a spell.

So discuss my list, whether you like the ideas or not, because I'm okay with whatever you think of it. It was just a thought that I wanted to put into the community, so enjoy.

[Jexik]

I never wrote it out, but I was recently thinking about trying to make some customs based on cards from Shards of Alara. There is a green creature (Wild Nacatl) that gets a bonus if you have mountains or plains, so I was just going to give it special bonuses if it is on a rock (+1 attack/defense) or grass space (thorian speed and/or grass counts as road). For Wooly Thoctar (a red/green/white creature) I was going to make it a Common Hero Beast that follows Ullar which you need at least one utgar and one Jandar card in your army for each one you draft. IT would be really cheap for its attack/defense stats, but have no special powers, much like the source material.


Artifacts simply make me think of Soulborgs, especially the Vydar ones. Or just glyphs. One of them is even called Brandar (artifact).

As for putting mana/energy rules into Heroscape, it might be neat for a few scenarios, but I feel like we've already got some of those mechanics in Heroscape, but they just look different. Points and order markers serve a similar purpose to casting costs, while the dice provide the randomness inherent in playing with a deck of cards. The X order marker is a lot like when you've got a hand full of cards in a blue/counterspell deck- not so good for the overly aggressive decks/armies that only have one place to put their orders.

I think there are plenty of interesting counters in the game as it is. Many of the 'bad' figures become at least a little better in a drafted game, much like a sideboard in magic. More HS tourneys with sideboards might be an interesting avenue to explore. (I know it was done at least once in the Northeast).

[thezandcshow]

Originally Posted by Jexik

I never wrote it out, but I was recently thinking about trying to make some customs based on cards from Shards of Alara. There is a green creature (Wild Nacatl) that gets a bonus if you have mountains or plains, so I was just going to give it special bonuses if it is on a rock (+1 attack/defense) or grass space (thorian speed and/or grass counts as road). For Wooly Thoctar (a red/green/white creature) I was going to make it a Common Hero Beast that follows Ullar which you need at least one utgar and one Jandar card in your army for each one you draft. IT would be really cheap for its attack/defense stats, but have no special powers, much like the source material.


Artifacts simply make me think of Soulborgs, especially the Vydar ones. Or just glyphs. One of them is even called Brandar (artifact).

As for putting mana/energy rules into Heroscape, it might be neat for a few scenarios, but I feel like we've already got some of those mechanics in Heroscape, but they just look different. Points and order markers serve a similar purpose to casting costs, while the dice provide the randomness inherent in playing with a deck of cards. The X order marker is a lot like when you've got a hand full of cards in a blue/counterspell deck- not so good for the overly aggressive decks/armies that only have one place to put their orders.

I think there are plenty of interesting counters in the game as it is. Many of the 'bad' figures become at least a little better in a drafted game, much like a sideboard in magic. More HS tourneys with sideboards might be an interesting avenue to explore. (I know it was done at least once in the Northeast).

I'm familiar with the Glyph of Brandar, but usually, it only symbolizes one specific artifact. With the artifact concept, it involves many various artifacts to be used.

A sideboard for Heroscape wouldn't work though, because it's too confusing to actually put together. There could be a pile you're not using in the first game and you could switch it in for your next game in a "match" kind of tournament.

An energy format does have its faults, of course. There are similar concepts in the game already, but it just expands on the idea.

What I meant by "counters" was like the kind used often in the Lorwyn-Shadowmoor block. They give +1/+1 or -1/-1. We need to see something like that, to fit into the themes. Sure, it's not the same here, but hey, it's not supposed to be.

The whole theme here is basically expanding on what Heroscape has in common with Magic, and putting these elements into an "alternative" game format. Of course, Heroscape is almost all alternative game formats, it just pushes the possibilities further. It's not exactly Magic: the Gathering put into the universe of Heroscape, but sort of compiling the mechanics and making an unexpected twist on either one.

BTW the customs sound really cool. If they end up well, why don't you post them?

[The B.I.V.]

Originally Posted by thezandcshow

Multi-Faction Units are basically like multicolor creatures in Magic. These would work for two or more factions at a time, and bring new mechanics to the game. For example, if two abilities were to target units of seperate factions, a multi-faction unit would be affected by both, be it positive or negative.

Interesting idea. The fact is, though, you can mix different units from different factions at will, so this wouldn't really be a factor in HS. Having a figure that suffers effects from multi-factions is viable, though, I suppose.

Originally Posted by thezandcshow

Energy

Originally Posted by thezandcshow

, like Mana in Magic, is used to pay for artifacts and spells(explained later), and is put into the form of counters that you put one onto a creature of your choice on your turn. They could come in boxes with the artifacts or sets of spells, with an amount equal to the total required to play the one of highest cost. The energy is removed from the unit once it is used, but can be re-used on other ones. It is developed from whatever faction is developing it or can be colorless for generic spells and artifacts.

Several have tinkered with this on custom units. It's called "The Gift of Magic." Do a serach in the custom section or check out the issues of the HS Codex. Also, take a look at Morsbane, an official fig who also follows this schema (to some extent).

Originally Posted by thezandcshow

Artifacts

Originally Posted by thezandcshow

can be compared to glyphs or the Fortress Door. Unlike glyphs, they are figures themselves and can be put onto the card of whatever picks it up (it is picked up when you're adjacent to it). They can give special benefits to the "equipped" unit, whether activated or not.

Custom creators have devised "equipment" glyphs, which I think is what you're getting at here. Again, search the cutom forum or look in the Codex.

Originally Posted by thezandcshow

Positive/Negative Counters

Originally Posted by thezandcshow

can put unexpected spins on the functioning of a unit, either increasing or decreasing attack, defense, range, or movement. Usually it could come from a unit ability, an artifact or a spell.

This has been done, to some extent, on official units like the Tagawa Samurai.

Magic is a great game, for a lot of the same reasons that HS is, so I agree with you, there.

Brandon

[ollie]

Originally Posted by thezandcshow

A sideboard for Heroscape wouldn't work though, because it's too confusing to actually put together. There could be a pile you're not using in the first game and you could switch it in for your next game in a "match" kind of tournament.

I've never played magic, so "sideboard" might mean something different, but I can assure you it works well for Heroscape in the format used at Battle of the Border last year:

Each player brings 600pts of units. They are displayed for the opponent to see before each game (the map is known at this point). The players simultaneously choose a 500pt army from their 600pt pool (either honestly by just placing your units, or with the technological aid of a pencil and a bit of paper). Voila, two 500pt armies ready to go. Speedy and adds a definite counterdrafty feel to a tournament game.

[thezandcshow]

Originally Posted by The B.I.V.

Interesting idea. The fact is, though, you can mix different units from different factions at will, so this wouldn't really be a factor in HS. Having a figure that suffers effects from multi-factions is viable, though, I suppose.

Several have tinkered with this on custom units. It's called "The Gift of Magic." Do a serach in the custom section or check out the issues of the HS Codex. Also, take a look at Morsbane, an official fig who also follows this schema (to some extent).

Custom creators have devised "equipment" glyphs, which I think is what you're getting at here. Again, search the cutom forum or look in the Codex.

This has been done, to some extent, on official units like the Tagawa Samurai.

Magic is a great game, for a lot of the same reasons that HS is, so I agree with you, there.

Brandon

I have to say I agree. I'm familiar with Morsbane's negation ability and the Tagawa samurai power increase. Both are potentially good abilities. Maybe we need more units of that kind, right?

I think equipment glyphs would also be cool, maybe better for the sake of simplicity. I mean, if it gets way too complicated, it wouldn't be as fun.

I'll look at the "Gift of Magic." Thanks for the tips.

[thezandcshow]

Originally Posted by ollie

I've never played magic, so "sideboard" might mean something different, but I can assure you it works well for Heroscape in the format used at Battle of the Border last year:

Each player brings 600pts of units. They are displayed for the opponent to see before each game (the map is known at this point). The players simultaneously choose a 500pt army from their 600pt pool (either honestly by just placing your units, or with the technological aid of a pencil and a bit of paper). Voila, two 500pt armies ready to go. Speedy and adds a definite counterdrafty feel to a tournament game.

That's a nice catch. It would be a best 2-out-of-3 system, right? That's how a Magic match game works.

By the Way, i have more ideas:

Parallel Universe Terrain Packs capture the "otherworldly" essences of Heroscape and Magic alike. The terrain hexes included are called "Vacuum" (does not add height). Vacuum terrain cannot be used by units themselves but can be traveled with "Ships". If there are units in range for an attack and Vacuum terrain is in between them, the attack is ignored.

"Token" Units are common heroes that do not cost points to put into your army, but are bought into play under a special condition, like the Rechets of Bogdan are. They usually have no special abilities unless it is mentioned on their cards. If a unit was to have tokens, the token figures would be included.

Banned/Restricted Lists would only apply for common units. It controls whether you could have a unit in a tournament game, only two units of a common type, or none at all. Only a few units would be considered like this, but could have an impact on gameplay.

As I've said, discuss my ideas and enjoy the topic for what it is.

[ollie]

Originally Posted by thezandcshow

That's a nice catch. It would be a best 2-out-of-3 system, right? That's how a Magic match game works.

No, just one game between each pair of opponents. There are usually four or five games in a day, with different opponents each time. A Swiss system ranks the players so that you're playing against players with similar records, and you get a ranking of all the participants at the end.

[thezandcshow]

Originally Posted by ollie

No, just one game between each pair of opponents. There are usually four or five games in a day, with different opponents each time. A Swiss system ranks the players so that you're playing against players with similar records, and you get a ranking of all the participants at the end.

Oh, I get it now. Thanks.

[Junge Roman]

I'll echo what some have already said to a degree. Heroscape has some of the same concepts, but they look different. I like the way they look a lot better, myself.
All the "spells," "counters," etc. are contained completely on the cards and represented by the figures' abilities. I really don't want to play planeswalker when I am playing Heroscape. I want to act out the battles between the "creatures" in more detail than Magic allows. Restricted/banned has its place in specific tournaments, but should never be adopted across the board. Heroscape is pretty balanced, so it doesn't need it. The banned/restricted lists in Magic were out of control, and I really hate the direction that game took a long time ago.
There are definite parallels, though!

[thezandcshow]

Originally Posted by Junge Roman

I'll echo what some have already said to a degree. Heroscape has some of the same concepts, but they look different. I like the way they look a lot better, myself.
All the "spells," "counters," etc. are contained completely on the cards and represented by the figures' abilities. I really don't want to play planeswalker when I am playing Heroscape. I want to act out the battles between the "creatures" in more detail than Magic allows. Restricted/banned has its place in specific tournaments, but should never be adopted across the board. Heroscape is pretty balanced, so it doesn't need it. The banned/restricted lists in Magic were out of control, and I really hate the direction that game took a long time ago.
There are definite parallels, though!

Well, of course. You could see this thread as a series of new ideas or a way to expand on the ideas existing already.

[Junge Roman]

thezandcshow, I never intend to bash anyone or shut them down when they are bringing their ideas to the table. After looking back I see that what I posted may have come across that way. Please excuse that.