Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[ZBeeblebrox]

Originally Posted by xraine69

Hey Killometer, I have a question on the playtesting process. Are you all throwing these figures in competitive builds and playing heads up or are you testing them in scenarios?

I think we all have different testing methodes. I myself tested him in both. I did competitive 1-on-1 builds, a Heat of Battle, heroes Only and some dungeon scenarios....just to name a few

[xraine69]

I have never been big on customs, but I have been watching the threads more since the cancellation. The only concern I have about customs, is the competitive minset on the site in general. I worry about power creep and the metagame influencing customs. theGuru, GB and Truth, never concidered the metagame during design from what they have said. I worry the customs may get away from the original design of figures. I would only consider using customs that stick to the original balance. My of feelings.

[Killometer]

Like ZB said, we each test our own way-we don't have an "SoV standard."

I honestly didn't even think of putting Gor'Vath through any scenarios . I tested him in standard 500ish versus 500ish, HoB, one-on-one against other heroes and versus 150ish points of squads. Scenarios are something I'll add to future tests.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Originally Posted by xraine69

I have never been big on customs, but I have been watching the threads more since the cancellation. The only concern I have about customs, is the competitive minset on the site in general. I worry about power creep and the metagame influencing customs. theGuru, GB and Truth, never concidered the metagame during design from what they have said. I worry the customs may get away from the original design of figures. I would only consider using customs that stick to the original balance. My of feelings.

I'm working with both projects and we are on the same page.

Both the SoV and C3V are just as concerned with power creep and the metagame as was Truth, GB...ect. And the C3V still has GB working on the Executive Board to continue with that ideal.

The SoV members are in lock-step on reviewing units that are fun and inventive as well as competitive units. We are not just thinking tournaments but the overall gaming experience when we are looking at customs.

[Lamaclown]

Originally Posted by xraine69

I have never been big on customs, but I have been watching the threads more since the cancellation. The only concern I have about customs, is the competitive minset on the site in general. I worry about power creep and the metagame influencing customs. theGuru, GB and Truth, never concidered the metagame during design from what they have said. I worry the customs may get away from the original design of figures. I would only consider using customs that stick to the original balance. My of feelings.

Thanks for the input!
I have been using the C3G model for my playtesting. While I have never been to a tournament and don't have that mindset I will be sure to add a scenario test in the future just to be certain.
Thanks again.

[dok]

Originally Posted by xraine69

theGuru, GB and Truth, never concidered the metagame during design from what they have said.

They didn't try to make every figure a tournament staple, sure. But they did try to fight against power creep, which is the other side of that coin.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see SoV or C3V stamp a custom card that would basically never see the table in a double-blind, prebuilt, top-tier army. I would be surprised to see either come out with a really dominant, A+ card. So in that sense, I expect them to stick to the design team model.

[TurtleKing99]

Hmm... So what will you do if something that makes old units much better is approved, and another is submitted that will make the original unit overpowered? like dok's Zombie guy, and then someone submits a different variation on it, like a necromancer that boosts their defense or something, so that if you're using both guys, the zombies are too good. Will you approve both, stick with the first, or just say that they shouldn't be used together?

[Killometer]

We're including any unit accepted to the SoV in our considerations for future submissions.

[robbdaman]

One of the things people might take into account is to not necessarily build a custom around the idea of supporting another. Realistically a unit that does boost another directly by design could possibly be too strong as an idea to begin with. Even if it is a bottom of the barrel unit that you are trying to assist like Deathwalkers. Yes they die really easy but think about how nasty they would be if they were supported somehow with extra lives. DW9K with the 3 life and his 9 defense could be almost unstoppable.

Take my Gor'Vath for instance here. I built him primarily to emulate some of the properties that the Hezrou has in D&D Minis. It wasn't until after his construction that I thought I would try him as a beast. It just so happens that his reduction of defenses assisted the Arrow Gruts exceptionally and as a result boosted a unit that could use more than one way to get a boost. As Zb and Killo both stated the Arrow Gruts typically need Swogs running alongside to make them not just die outright against everything that they run into. As it stands he was just a bit too efficient but back to the drawing board with him and revisions will be made as I really want him to get approved here.

I was thinking the other day about conflicting units between the SoV and C3V and how it could be an issue if there are units that are built in a fashion that would overpower a combination. The fact that there are a few people are part of both groups really should help eliminate that problem though. And yes I would guess that any units proposed that the SoV team would determine would be overpowered would likely get shot down. I would imagine that would have to include previously approved units. Much like the design team has always done if there is a problem it will get shot down.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by xraine69

Hey Killometer, I have a question on the playtesting process. Are you all throwing these figures in competitive builds and playing heads up or are you testing them in scenarios?

I know some of the other judges have already taken a swing at this, but I'll throw in my as well.

I'm looking for interesting, balanced, thematic units. Playtesting is to make sure they are valued properly and are not broken. You might say that the scenario relevance analysis comes in the first step: is the unit interesting, fun, aesthetically pleasing, etc.

I don't really care whether a unit will be one that turns up in tournaments. That's not part of my analysis, nor should it be. I *do*, however, have a responsibility to this project and to the community to do my part to keep us from approving units that are, in some way, broken.

My playtesting of GorVath, for instance, revealed the same experience as the other judges: he was tons of fun against mixed or range armies but he *wrecked* melee squads. It was just broken.

Priscus may be a guy with tournament relevance. I do not know whether the Zombie Hulk will or not. Either way, I will playtest them to see if they are valued properly.

It's my goal to approve units that are fun, thematic, and balanced, regardless of their tournament relevance. Some might be more suited to scenario play, some not, that's not really part of my process.

The important thing is, as you say, we avoid pitfalls like power creep.

[Tiranx]

It is interesting that there have been comments on how SoV and C3G customs will change the game. My real concern is what will really be considered valid customs for tournaments in the future. With both groups working individually will tournaments that accept C3G figures allow SoV units.

I know that some of you are working on both projects and that helps a lot. However, I think there should be something like justjohn's Barracks. A definite list of figures that both groups accept as official customs.

[nyys]

It's really going to be up to the individual tourney director if anything will be recognized for a particular event. If they say official Scape only, then its official only... nothing you can do.