What Type of Custom Creator or Fan Are You?

[Matt Helm]

Hopefully all of the folks that frequent this side of the tracks will help me out here in building a quick database as to what each creator and fan is looking for. To explain what I mean is, we all have a different interest as to what we are looking to create in our customs and what we are looking to see in the customs of others. Many times we comment in threads with advice or feedback that just doesn't match up with what the creator's vision was. Now I'm not looking to curb any of these comments, but at the risk of labeling anyone, I just wanted to offer a reference so that particularly some of the newer folks, can get a feel as to the philosophies of the critic and gauge as to how they want to react to it. I'm hoping to avoid some of the reoccurring debates on vision if possible.

The second reason for creating this thread is to get some feedback from "fans" who may not create customs, but use them in their games. If we as custom creators can get a handle on what these folks want to see, it may expose some nice niches not being filled currently by C3G or other groups of customizers. I figure we may be able to turn some up-and-coming custom makers onto a new market so to speak.

Anyway, if I'm not making any sense, I encourage you to read my Blog on Building a Super Custom. Then, read the following list and in a single post, let me know which side of the fence you lean toward. Additional comments are fine if you want to explain, but if you number your answers, it would be easier for a reader to follow.

When I receive some posts, I'll create a master list in this first post so that at anytime you want to see where a commenter in your thread is coming from, you can check back here and say, "Ahhhh, now I see why he/she feels that way."

So the categories for comment are:
1. Figure Photo or Comic Art
2. Compatability with Marvel, Valhalla, C3G, NM24, any comic custom, and/or other customs such as Sci Fi/Star Wars (in other words, are you concerned with your customs playing well with synergies in other genres)
3. Theme vs. Mechanics, which one is more important to you. Would you sacrifice something on one in order to perfect the other?
4. Custom short cuts such as Flying Symbols or other symbols like team logos, where do you draw your line.
5. Individual Secret Identities or Iconic "Lunch Box" Representations What would your custom world include?
6. Does your quest for theme mean that you want you specific characteristics always spelled out in the powers, or are you willing to "hide" theme in base stats for "simplicity".
7. Language preference. Are you strict on Heroscape "official" language or are you willing to take liberties on "house slang" such as "...powers that refer to heat, fire or flame..."
8. Do you have a ceiling on the number of powers on a card?
9. Do you have a ceiling on point value?
10. Are you into the customs to actually play in games, or are you just into the fun of translating comic characters onto cards?

Let the comments begin...

[Matt Helm]

A3n - creator
Adam Souza - creator
Aldin - critic
artemiscorso - creator
Badgermaniac - creator
Balantai - creator
Boromir and Kermit - creator (and TMNT specialist)
The BIV - creator
Cavalier - terrain engineer
chas - designer
davidlhsl - fan
Drewman-chu - designer
Eclipse - creator
Felindar - creator
Grey Owl - creator (and master of many custom things)
Griffin - creator (and C3G specialist)
Hahma - designer
hidicul - creator
IAmBatman - designer (and C3G specialist)
jcmcminis - creator
johnny139 - creator
Matt Helm - designer
Monk - creator
Necroblade - creator
Sherman Davies - creator
Spidey'tilIdie - designer
tcglkn - creator
Whitestuff - creator
wulfhunter667 - creator
Xn F M - fan and now creator

[Matt Helm]

1. Figure Photo every time (although I have been forced to play with excellent comic art cards)
2. Compatibility with Marvel, Valhalla, and for the most part C3G. I would like to expand into other genres like SciFi and maintain that compatibility.
3. Mechanics takes precedence every time and I will take liberties on role-playing aspects if it means the custom works better on a strategy game board.
4. No Symbols or short cuts, not even the flying symbol.
5. Iconic "Lunch Box" with no need for secret identities.
6. Powers should be incorporated into base stats whenever possible.
7. Strict on Heroscape "official" language and don't like card slang such as "...powers that refer to heat, fire or flame..."
8. Ceiling at Four Powers per card.
9. Ceiling at 400 Points for the most powerful single card.
10. I plan on Playing the Games.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by Matt Helm

So the categories for comment are:
1. Figure Photo or Comic Art
2. Compatability with Marvel, Valhalla, C3G, NM24, any comic custom, and/or other customs such as Sci Fi/Star Wars (in other words, are you concerned with your customs playing well with synergies in other genres)
3. Theme vs. Mechanics, which one is more important to you. Would you sacrafice something on one in order to perfect the other?
4. Custom short cuts such as Flying Symbols or other symbols like team logos, where do you draw your line.
5. Individual Secret Identities or Iconic "Lunch Box" Representations What would your custom world include?
6. Does your quest for theme mean that you want you specific characteristics always spelled out in the powers, or are you willing to "hide" theme in base stats for "simplicity".
7. Language preference. Are you strict on Heroscape "official" language or are you willing to take liberties on "house slang" such as "...powers that refer to heat, fire or flame..."
8. Do you have a ceiling on the number of powers on a card?
9. Do you have a ceiling on point value?
10. Are you into the customs to actually play in games, or are you just into the fun of translating comic characters onto cards?

1) First preference is really well done figure photo, but usually comic art since there is a dearth of well done figure photos (owing in large part to the generally uninspired look of Heroclix figures).
2) It has to work with all the official Classic and Marvel figures and I'm starting to consider C3G figures as important in terms of meshing as well.
3) Mechanics. But I'm a huge fan of trying to figure out ways to make theme work well with solid mechanics. This is probably the area where I most consistently try to go the extra mile.
4) Super strength and Flying are both so prevalent in the Supers "universe" that those make sense to me as symbols. Everything else should be written out to avoid confusion and power creep.
5) Either. Sometimes I think we ought to split 'em up by writer because let's face it, the Bob Kane Batman and the Frank Miller Batman are two entirely different individuals If there is a specific secret identity attached, the card should represent that identity seperately from the way it would represent a different identity or the iconic identity.
6) Hiding theme in base stats is a great idea and should be pursued whenever possible.
7) Official language. It helps to keep the custom compatible with future releases.
8) No ceiling, but they all need to be purposeful. Just because Superman has freezing breath and heat ray vision does not mean he needs two seperate ranged special attacks.
9) Kinda. Point values over 250 or so are very difficult to nail down since there is very little to compare it to and it's likely to be a very 'swingy' figure that sometimes does very well and sometimes does very poorly. I like the soft cap of 400 that C3G is working with and would feel pretty out of my depth with anything much higher than that.
10) Fun. But I have been strongly considering picking up the figures to play World's Finest with my son.

~Aldin, more critic than creator

[Balantai]

1. Figure Photo or Comic Art
Comic Art

2. Compatability with Marvel, Valhalla, C3G, NM24, any comic custom, and/or other customs such as Sci Fi/Star Wars (in other words, are you concerned with your customs playing well with synergies in other genres)
I prefer compatibility to C3G. They have the most defined rule set other than official Heroscape and I feel it better fits the superhero realm.

3. Theme vs. Mechanics, which one is more important to you. Would you sacrifice something on one in order to perfect the other?
This is tough. I favor theme, but not at the sacrafice of mechanics. There's a midpoint I try to reach.

4. Custom short cuts such as Flying Symbols or other symbols like team logos, where do you draw your line.
Flying Symbol, Force Symbol, Force Jump Symbol. (Last two are for Star Wars customs)

5. Individual Secret Identities or Iconic "Lunch Box" Representations What would your custom world include?
Secret Identities. Without the ability to play a Green Lantern Corp battle, it's just not Superheroscape to me.

6. Does your quest for theme mean that you want specific characteristics always spelled out in the powers, or are you willing to "hide" theme in base stats for "simplicity".
Many of my original cards favored the side of theme. Recently, I have been erring more on the side of mechanics. It's amazing how simple stat changes can make your custom feel like a specific character as much as an actual power on the card.

7. Language preference. Are you strict on Heroscape "official" language or are you willing to take liberties on "house slang" such as "...powers that refer to heat, fire or flame..."
Official whenever possible.

8. Do you have a ceiling on the number of powers on a card?
No. But the powers need to fit on a card cleanly.

9. Do you have a ceiling on point value?
Nope. I like the idea of creating a 1000 pt Magneto to take on the X-Men or an 800 pt Deathstroke to take on the Teen Titans.

10. Are you into the customs to actually play in games, or are you just into the fun of translating comic characters onto cards?
Both. Many of my customs are not playtested, but it's mostly because I don't have anyone to play with. My son is only 5 and my wife thinks I'm weird. Someday, I fully plan on playing with all of my customs.

[Balantai]

Great thread idea, Matt. How about a question relating to creating customs of figures that have already been released such as Iron Man, Hulk, Thanos, etc.?

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by Matt Helm

1. Figure Photo every time (although I have been forced to play with excellent comic art cards) I Somewhat Agree w/ MH - I prefer well done figure cards, but some of the comic art ones are fantastic looking.
2. Compatibility with Marvel, Valhalla, and for the most part C3G. I would like to expand into other genres like SciFi and maintain that compatibility. concerned with your customs playing well with synergies in other genres) I Strongly Agree w/ MH
3. Mechanics takes precedence every time and I will take liberties on role-playing aspects if it means the custom works better on a strategy game board. I Strongly Agree w/ MH
4. No Symbols or short cuts, not even the flying symbol. I Somewhat Disagree w/ MH - I like the FLying Symbol, but I don't want to see a slew of others.
5. Iconic "Lunch Box" with no need for secret identities. I Strongly Agree w/ MH
6. Powers should be incorporated into base stats whenever possible. I Strongly Agree w/ MH
7. Strict on Heroscape "official" language and don't like card slang such as "...powers that refer to heat, fire or flame..." I Strongly Agree w/ MH
8. Ceiling at Four Powers per card. I Neither Agree nor Disagree w/ MH.
9. Ceiling at 400 Points for the most powerful single card. I Neither Agree nor Disagree w/ MH - I don't have a strong opinion on this point. I see the need, but I am not certain of the level, etc
10. I plan on Playing the Games. I Strongly Agree w/ MH

Great idea, MH.

[Eclipse]

1. Figure Photo or Comic Art

Comic Art. Mostly its a background issue for me. The official cards have this awful stuff that looks like it could be holofoil, which sends me into nightmares of the dark ages of the 90's. Using comic art allows me to pay tribute to the great men who do such amazing work bringing these characters to life. If I could get Jim Lee or Ivan Reis to do every one of my cards, I'd be on it in a heartbeat. I'll probably soon go back and simply replace the figure art on the official cards just for this reason.

2. Compatability with Marvel, Valhalla, C3G, NM24, any comic custom, and/or other customs such as Sci Fi/Star Wars (in other words, are you concerned with your customs playing well with synergies in other genres)

Compatibility with Marvel is a must. Valhalla is strongly encouraged, but secondary. My primary requirement is that they be compatible with my own collection, which excludes C3G, NM24 and others simply because if I like it enough to use it, I'll make any changes I need to to ensure compatibility.

3. Theme vs. Mechanics, which one is more important to you. Would you sacrifice something on one in order to perfect the other?

Mechanics and playability first. However, mechanics that produce an improper theme are just as broken as those that don't play well, so its not really a binary decision.

4. Custom short cuts such as Flying Symbols or other symbols like team logos, where do you draw your line.

No Flying symbol. It's an extremely powerful ability whose cost should not be ignored. Moreover, not writing it out gives too much advantage to the characters that use it, particularly over "special move" options that are both less powerful and more wordy than standard flying.

I don't like team symbols, but I like teams, keeping in line with the General line in classic. I don't really consider all star teams worthy of the line though, as groups like the Avengers, Justice League, Secret Society and the like are mostly individuals thrown together to get more exposure than a real team like the F4 or the X-Men.

5. Individual Secret Identities or Iconic "Lunch Box" Representations What would your custom world include?

A mix of both, but not by giving them a secret ID line on the card. I go by how the comics treat them. If you have characters like Wally West and Barry Allen who are functionally identical, I have no problem treating them as one and the same. More diverse characters like the Green Lanterns are probably better off listed as their actual names because that's what the comic does as well; those characters don't all going around calling each other Green Lantern. The comics find a way to reconcile the different characters who share a name most of the time.

6. Does your quest for theme mean that you want you specific characteristics always spelled out in the powers, or are you willing to "hide" theme in base stats for "simplicity".

Combat functionality is represented in the stats first and foremost. Energy projection is not a special attack by default; its for attacks that create an actual, unique effect. If the basic game could represent it, it goes in the stats. If you break the basic rules, it becomes a special.

7. Language preference. Are you strict on Heroscape "official" language or are you willing to take liberties on "house slang" such as "...powers that refer to heat, fire or flame..."

Official wording only. If its not on the card, its not on my card. No fudging with figure details, no use of vague concepts no matter how thematic, and you deal with the fact that the game considers every single figure in a common group to be a single entity.

8. Do you have a ceiling on the number of powers on a card?

No, but if I've got more than 4 I'm probably completely out of space anyway. If I'm out of space it probably means I've failed to condense similar concepts or properly represent an ability within the base stats.

9. Do you have a ceiling on point value?

Not really. With Surfer and Thanos already in the game there's a certain cap to what makes sense for figures point wise in the 400 range, but I'm not going to put a hard limit when there's still guys like Galactus that haven't made the chart.

10. Are you into the customs to actually play in games, or are you just into the fun of translating comic characters onto cards?

I used to just be into the fun of translation, but I'm transitioning into actually playing the game. My custom collection is my personal custom collection as far as play is worth, but I'm always looking for great ideas to steal for it as well.

[The B.I.V.]

1. Figure Photo or Comic Art
Figure Photo. I want my cards to look as close to official cards as possible. Plus, I mostly make my customs for myself and I have all the figures, so why not add that extra finishing touch?

2. Compatability with Marvel, Valhalla, C3G, NM24, any comic custom, and/or other customs such as Sci Fi/Star Wars (in other words, are you concerned with your customs playing well with synergies in other genres)
Marvel and Valhalla mostly. When I do use someone else's card (a rare occurance) I almost always stick with something that's been NM24d.

3. Theme vs. Mechanics, which one is more important to you. Would you sacrifice something on one in order to perfect the other?
I guess I'd go with theme, first. Although, if something isn't gonna work within the mechanics of the game, I tinker until I find something that does.

4. Custom short cuts such as Flying Symbols or other symbols like team logos, where do you draw your line.
I don't do any shortcuts. Again, I'm trying to be as official as possible with my creations.

5. Individual Secret Identities or Iconic "Lunch Box" Representations What would your custom world include?
If I have multiple figures, I'd definitely consider making multiple secret identities, out of practicality, so I could actually use the figs. But if I have one Batman figure, I'm going to make it the generic iconic Bruce Wayne Batman. It's just simpler. Then I have to do less explaining to players who may not be intimately familiar with the comics themselves. "See, this is Batman from when Two Face brainwashed him into thinking he was an awkward teenager, plus he had accidentally killed some civilians so he was feeling a lot of guilt, which is reflected in his low attack stat...." Uh-uh! Batman is Batman. He throws batarangs, he swings from tall buildings, etc, etc. everyone knows that and that's the version I want on my table (by and large).

6. Does your quest for theme mean that you want you specific characteristics always spelled out in the powers, or are you willing to "hide" theme in base stats for "simplicity".
I definitely hide them in base stats. I mean, there's only so much room on a card. You need to use it creatively. Plus every power that a figure possesses doesn't need to be spelled out as an ability. Again, I think you see that on official cards. Thanos and Dr. Doom both have ranged normal attacks that are reflected on thier stats, but aren't "Thanos Force Blast Special Attack." Plus, mechanics-wise, you don't want every figure out there running around with a special attack. That would just ruin the game.

7. Language preference. Are you strict on Heroscape "official" language or are you willing to take liberties on "house slang" such as "...powers that refer to heat, fire or flame..."
I used to lean toward slang, since I mostly design my cards for my own use, and I know what I mean. But I think the excellent creators in this forum have helped straighten me out and now I go as official as possible to avoid any possible confusion.

8. Do you have a ceiling on the number of powers on a card?
No, but if they're not very wordy I usually limit them to 4 so...yes, I suppose I do have a ceiling...

9. Do you have a ceiling on point value?
I stick with what has already been established by the official figs. In other words, 400 is max (Thanos, Silver Surfer territory). Anything beyond that is just kinda silly especially since I play mixed Marvel/Classic exclusively...

10. Are you into the customs to actually play in games, or are you just into the fun of translating comic characters onto cards?
I only make cards for figures that I have and that I intend to play in games. So even though I might like to make a Dr. Strange card, for example, I don't, unless I somehow acquire the figure. And I mostly just let figs fall into my lap rather than hunting them down, so it keeps me in check...

Brandon

[IAmBatman]

Great idea for a thread.

1. Figure Photo or Comic Art - Both, please.
2. Compatability with Marvel, Valhalla, C3G, NM24, any comic custom, and/or other customs such as Sci Fi/Star Wars (in other words, are you concerned with your customs playing well with synergies in other genres) - I'm not necessarily wishing to have the burden of creating synergies with other genres, but I think it's worth being aware of them. I'm OK with mixing and matching and OK with keeping things separate as well. I would strive to maintain as much compatibility as possible, though, if not synergy. Since C3G is basically the only custom designing I'm doing right now, internal synergy and compatibility within C3G as well as with any official stuff is big for me.
3. Theme vs. Mechanics, which one is more important to you. Would you sacrifice something on one in order to perfect the other? - Tough, tough call. I consider myself a bit of a "Moderate" on this issue. I like iconic representation of theme and unique mechanics that change how the game is played without making it messy. I dislike simplicity on cards, but I do prize elegance. When it comes to Superheroes, I really want to cover the thematic basis of a character, but I want to do it in a way that doesn't make them really difficult or unfun to play (or create sloppy or highly confusing powers that don't fit in well with the official game). If I had to sacrifice one, I think it'd be theme, but I think that careful balance is really key here. You really want a mechanically clean custom with just enough theme. How much is just enough, though? For me, it's somewhere north of a Matt Helm original and south of a Badgermaniac original.
4. Custom short cuts such as Flying Symbols or other symbols like team logos, where do you draw your line. - I draw the line where it stops working well, honestly. I think the rule of thumb for me, when it comes to symbols, should be - is it easy to remember? Is it something that's going to be commonly enough used that it's worth it? Is it a power that's such a space suck for its comparative ease of use that I can really benefit highly from the extra space on the card? And is it something I can't do (and do well) without? So far I've been tempted to incorporate additional symbols for extra cards, but every time I've been met with resistance from the community, and the community has usually been right, because they've pushed me to find clever, elegant solutions that I've usually ended up liking better. The Flying Symbol, though, I love, especially in SuperHeroScape, and I think dropping it would be a major loss.
5. Individual Secret Identities or Iconic "Lunch Box" Representations What would your custom world include? - How else would I know Bruce Wayne Batman from Dick Grayson Batman? And, yeah, I'm a guy who thinks it's worth having separate cards for either.
6. Does your quest for theme mean that you want you specific characteristics always spelled out in the powers, or are you willing to "hide" theme in base stats for "simplicity". - Absolutely hide things in powers, but don't hide too much, or you lack "cowbell" as Whitestuff likes to put it. Not to pick on Mr. Helm too much (but he did start this thread) but his recent Super Skrull really fell apart for me on first read due to this issue. Sure, you can put just about every power from the Fantastic Four into Super Skrull's stats, but at a certain point if you don't have a big, showy, uniquely Fantastic Four feeling power on his card, he just doesn't feel like Super Skrull (by the way, good job on the revision, Matt!).
I think you choose two or three of the most iconic, essential powers a character has, and you represent those in the specials. Then you put everything else in the stats if you can (or, if you have to, if it's niche enough, or even sometimes if it isn't, like C3G Superman and Heat Vision, ignore it).
7. Language preference. Are you strict on Heroscape "official" language or are you willing to take liberties on "house slang" such as "...powers that refer to heat, fire or flame..." - I'm to the letter strict if I can be. I'll innovate when necessary to create a new mechanic, but I love the standard of official language and I'm going to try to keep the bar high for anything I work on.
8. Do you have a ceiling on the number of powers on a card? - Four in-text powers or three in-text powers and two symbols. I find myself bumping up against these ceilings from time to time, but I know that letting myself go buck wild with anything else will just look messy and chaotic on the card. Also, it just seems like it'd be too much to remember. Even four text powers is something I largely try to avoid these days.
9. Do you have a ceiling on point value? - Nope. I'm a fan of making a 5000 point unique hero if you can pull him off.
10. Are you into the customs to actually play in games, or are you just into the fun of translating comic characters onto cards? - Love to play them. Is there anything in the world more fun than playing well made SuperHeroscape customs? If so, please shoot me a message about what it is and I'll get to it!

[Matt Helm]

Thanks for diving in here guys, this is exactly what I was hoping for. I think it's great that we all vary so much on what we like and yet still manage to feed off of each other's input.

I'd really love to see some of the newer blood jump in as well as I'd like the short-cut chance to know where they are each coming from. And don't forget the fans, I think there's got to be a few folks out there who don't create but do enjoy using... I think Spidey was one of those once.

And who knows, maybe Garada, MarkB, Pete Felinder (what happened to him?), Hi, Allskulls and the other past contributors will check in for a chat right here.

[Adam Souza]

1. Figure Photo or Comic Art
Either, but I prefer comic art for my customs.
We are deaing with comic book charecters so it's hard to get them to look better than their original format.

2. Compatability with Marvel, Valhalla, C3G, NM24, any comic custom, and/or other customs
Marvel is a must. Valhalla would be great, but I find most Marvel dominates Valhalla anyways. I find C3G customs meet my expectations for the Marvel standard, so I'm designing with them in mind more and more, and using them as a basis for my comparisons.

3. Theme vs. Mechanics, which one is more important to you. Would you sacrifice something on one in order to perfect the other?
Theme is nice, but mechanics are more important. I'd rather have a figure that is fun to play and fudges than a themactic charecter that is broken to play.

4. Custom short cuts such as Flying Symbols or other symbols like team logos, where do you draw your line.
I love the flight and SS logos. I could live with Supergroup logos, but the thought hadn't previosly occured to me.

5. Individual Secret Identities or Iconic "Lunch Box" Representations What would your custom world include?
"lunch box" although I'm occasionally adding secret identities to my customs along my way. It doesn't bother me when they are included or not.

6. Does your quest for theme mean that you want you specific characteristics always spelled out in the powers, or are you willing to "hide" theme in base stats for "simplicity".

Depends on what there is room for. I recently did a custom Thing with his armor powers spelled out. I could have just easily given him a high defense and called it a day, but this time I did the opposite to make him more unique. Although if I was doing someone with a variety of interesting powers they most likely would have just ended up with a high defense, to save room and for the sake of simplicity.

7. Language preference. Are you strict on Heroscape "official" language or are you willing to take liberties on "house slang" such as "...powers that refer to heat, fire or flame..."

If there is an official example I try to use that language, but sometimes I think Hercoscape can be overly verbose. I try not to use house slang.

8. Do you have a ceiling on the number of powers on a card?
4 seems to be the standard, and I have a gamer in my group who heckels everytime he sees mroe than 3, so out of habit I try to stay with 3, but 4 is my personal maxiimum. After that I think legibility becomes an issue as well.

9. Do you have a ceiling on point value?
I try not to make anyone more powerfull than Hulk.

10. Are you into the customs to actually play in games, or are you just into the fun of translating comic characters onto cards?
I play with Customs on a weekly basis.