The Book of Sacred Band

[spiteofthedice]

Originally Posted by Rÿchean

Rev is correct, but NGS is tricky anyway. The only way you would be enjoying the bonus in the first placye is if Parmenio was in your army and he made NGS disciplined.

Which is what I had in mind. I just didn't explain myself well.

Originally Posted by Rÿchean

NGS doesn’t bond with the Band but you may have known that.

I realize that, but thanks, I was just wondering. Greeks and Armocs are actually the only set of which I currently own zero. It just happened that there was always another set next to them on the shelf that I was more excited about. Now I've gone and missed my chance. Waiting for a re-release . . .

[Obsidian]

I wanted to see if Defy Death was worth it. I know some of you have crunched some numbers, but I wanted to take it all the way.

A sacred band figure dieing from an attack with two defense:

Att    Normal    Defy Death
1    0.2222    0.1556
2    0.4444    0.3111
3    0.625    0.4375
4    0.7569    0.5299
5    0.8472    0.5931
6    0.9063    0.6344
7    0.9436    0.6605
8    0.9666    0.6766

A sacred band figure dieing from an attack with three defense:

Att    Normal    Defy Death
1    0.1481    0.1037
2    0.3333    0.2333
3    0.5093    0.3565
4    0.6551    0.4586
5    0.7662    0.5363
6    0.8461    0.5922
7    0.901    0.6307
8    0.9376    0.6564

Dieing from counter strike. The attack + 1 is coming from Marcus:

Def    Normal    Defy Death    Att + 1    DD and Att + 1
3    0.1991    0.13937           0.1227    0.03681
4    0.2963    0.20741           0.1968    0.05904
5    0.3951    0.27657           0.2793    0.08379
6    0.4897    0.34279           0.3652    0.10956
7    0.5766    0.40362           0.4502    0.13506

And finally, dieing from counter strike with Heroic Defense:

Def    Normal    Defy Death    Att+1    DD and Att + 1
3    0.3438    0.10314          0.226    0.0678
4    0.5       0.15             0.3633  0.10899
5    0.6367    0.19101          0.5     0.15
6    0.7461    0.22383          0.623    0.1869
7    0.8281    0.24843          0.7256   0.21768

[Obsidian]

Originally Posted by Aldin

And what do you conclude?

~Aldin, thinking you need to save about seven SB to roughly equal Parmy's cost

I was hopping that no one noticed that I never made a conclusion.

It's a tough call. The greater the change for death normally, the more powerful DD becomes. So if you are facing figures with large attacks like Drake, Carr, etc, then it might be worth the investment. Keep in mind, it can be quite difficult to get sacred band next to their hero.

At least you can count of Disciplined Influence?

[Retlaw]

I prefer to use Marcus with the Sacred Band over Parmy -- Marcus benefits other figures as well and as long as I don't need the disciplined influence, I've never used Parmy. One of my favorite 400 point armies is:
3x SB
2x 10th Reg
Marcus

The SB become 5M, 3A, 3D squad of 4 and bond with Marcus. Use the SB to tie up units and get the 10th on high ground with Marcus with them and you can usually get 2 or 3 of the 10th reg with 5 attack (2 base + 1 Wait + 1 Marcus + 1 height). Plus, Marcus makes the 10th Reg move 6, which is handy in getting to the high ground in the first place.

For the longest time, I never played the SB, but recently in lower point games, I have found them to be rather surprising. The army above cleaned house on some stingers/grubs/TKN.

[Sir Dendrik]

Man, I always thought these guys were worthless until I nixed Parmenio and just took Marcus.

The 10th Reg and many other stellar disciplined units make good builds, and the Band can send in a backup unit if one dies without taking a huge drop in defense.

[Fenmeister]

The Elite Onyx Vipers are not dicipline, but precise and therefore do NOT benefit the sacred band.

[Taeblewalker]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

I prefer to use Marcus with the Sacred Band over Parmy -- Marcus benefits other figures as well and as long as I don't need the disciplined influence, I've never used Parmy. One of my favorite 400 point armies is:
3x SB
2x 10th Reg
Marcus

The SB become 5M, 3A, 3D squad of 4 and bond with Marcus. Use the SB to tie up units and get the 10th on high ground with Marcus with them and you can usually get 2 or 3 of the 10th reg with 5 attack (2 base + 1 Wait + 1 Marcus + 1 height). Plus, Marcus makes the 10th Reg move 6, which is handy in getting to the high ground in the first place.

For the longest time, I never played the SB, but recently in lower point games, I have found them to be rather surprising. The army above cleaned house on some stingers/grubs/TKN.

I have really been thinking about how to use them as well. I think combining them with Valguard is hard to make work, even with Parmenio making him Disciplined. It's generally hard to justify Parmenio at all, given Marcus' buffs for Soldiers, even if you find a juicy unit that Parmenio can make Disciplined. Any really good unit that he can make Disciplined will eat a lot of points that might be better spent on 10th Regiment plus the extra 10 for Marcus instead of Parmenio.

Your army idea seems like it could really work, and I think the key again is using Marcus. The two Warlords together eat a few points but it's not so bad. Perhaps sending Parmenio out with the SB to keep them alive and get a fifth attack is a good idea, keeping Marcus in the back for his move bonus and having him boost the 10th. That's 190 points of heroes, with 300 more for 3 SB and 2 10th Regiment, plus Isamu. There's no need for making anyone Disciplined, but the ability need not be used.

If you must use Parmenio and try to get his ability into play, then I suggest perhaps one of the dragons, or maybe Syvarris or one of the big Soulborgs.

[Syvaris]

Not really Heroscape game related, but uhmm my these guys came up in my Ancient History 1 class the other day. The real life Sacred Band had some err interesting tastes in err the relationship arena. I cannot look at this squad the same again. Curse you AH1 for ruining Heroscape for me.

[Nano*22]

When I see the SB, I see a unit that so closely resembles the Roman Legos, but just isn't as powerful. Shield Wall makes up for the defense in the Legos and SB Death Defy just isn't good enough for me.

[Kroz]

Originally Posted by Nano*22

When I see the SB, I see a unit that so closely resembles the Roman Legos, but just isn't as powerful. Shield Wall makes up for the defense in the Legos and SB Death Defy just isn't good enough for me.

If it was an Aura...then it would be great.

[Ivellius]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

I prefer to use Marcus with the Sacred Band over Parmy -- Marcus benefits other figures as well and as long as I don't need the disciplined influence, I've never used Parmy. One of my favorite 400 point armies is:
3x SB
2x 10th Reg
Marcus

The SB become 5M, 3A, 3D squad of 4 and bond with Marcus. Use the SB to tie up units and get the 10th on high ground with Marcus with them and you can usually get 2 or 3 of the 10th reg with 5 attack (2 base + 1 Wait + 1 Marcus + 1 height). Plus, Marcus makes the 10th Reg move 6, which is handy in getting to the high ground in the first place.

For the longest time, I never played the SB, but recently in lower point games, I have found them to be rather surprising. The army above cleaned house on some stingers/grubs/TKN.

Originally Posted by Sir Dendrik

Man, I always thought these guys were worthless until I nixed Parmenio and just took Marcus.

The 10th Reg and many other stellar disciplined units make good builds, and the Band can send in a backup unit if one dies without taking a huge drop in defense.

This, at least in my opinion, is the key to using them in good armies. As Retlaw notes, you get a fast, hard-hitting ranged unit (whose attack Marcus can boost further, no less), and the Sacred Band make for a dependable melee screen that can actually do some damage. I don't think the Sacred Band are a bread-and-butter unit the way Romans are. I think their tactical advantage lies in screening for strong ranged units (read: 10th Regiment of Foot) behind them. The redcoats are just so strong with Marcus, and the Sacred Band can move him up to boost the 10th while they move to intercept enemy melee. In such an army, they're more like 'reavers or Marro Dividers than Knights, Heavy Gruts, Axegrinders, or Legionnaires.

[S1R_ART0R1US]

Tandros Kreel is discilplined.