Public Design Workshop

[laughing matter]

Originally Posted by Ronin

How can I hate someone I've never heard of?

Reckless Paranoia is interesting. Thematically cool, but definitely keeps him out of most Criminal builds. I'd say you need to drop something here but I'm not familiar with the character and can't make any judgement calls. The escape clause on Choke feels a little weird to me.

(You may also want to give Expert Climbing a quick look-over. Otto Octavius this guy ain't )

What are you talking about?

[TrollBrute]

Pretty good write-up! I like it, though it needs trimmed to three powers. Unless climbing is thematically necessary for the character, I'd cut EC.

[Lazy Orang]

I'll be honest here... I'd never take him. The stats aren't great, the powers aren't great, he's just... meh. Add to that the fact that most synergies are barred from him due to his potential to turn on you (not just Criminal ones, mind you, also guys like Iron Patriot, Robot, both Zemos, Hush, Red Skull, Ms. Marvel etc.) and really, I'd never, ever bother, even if he were really cheap. Maybe he'd be okay filler in a Cap build, but you could probably find better and I doubt that's the sort of army you'd want to be his go-to anyway considering how evil he's meant to be from your early description. Thing is, most generic villain leaders, like the ones I listed above (save Robot and Ms. Marvel) rely on OM management rather than, say, the inspiration of Capt. America or Star Lord the movement of J'onn (vI) or Robot, so there is no real villainous build this guy would work in, plus he doesn't exactly pair particularly well with any of the heroic hubs mentioned above. This would be fine if he were impressive enough to stand on his own, but... he's not. I've said before that I worry about low-to-mid level, unsynergistic heroes without something major going for them getting lost, and it's been pointed out to me that it isn't a problem really with all the generalist commanders out there. Slipknot is about as low level as you can get without the benefit of being an absolute filler you might chuck in anyway to make up points, about as unimpressive as you can get, and chucks away almost any help he may receive. It's a cool idea, but he'll just be frustrating to find a place for as it stands.

~ Lazy Orang, apologising for being so harsh.

[laughing matter]

Well, I'm fine with him being as low as 20 points. He was used as the kill off guy for the Suicide Squad movie after all. Expert climbing seems to be important to his character, but so does the choking. For me, those are the 2 at the top of the list to cut.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by laughing matter

Well, I'm fine with him being as low as 20 points. He was used as the kill off guy for the Suicide Squad movie after all. Expert climbing seems to be important to his character, but so does the choking. For me, those are the 2 at the top of the list to cut.

Fair enough - maybe I was overestimating where his points would come in at. If he were around a 50 points, then he'd work fine as a filler unit, if nothing more - C3G's honestly a bit lacking in great choices for real low level fillers (most low cost units are common heroes you want en-masse or with their leader, parts of low end synergy groups or real, bottom of the barrel 10 point distractions) some more decent filler heroes like Wasp (vI) would be nice.

[laughing matter]

Fair point. I may cut Choke to keep him from being too attack oriented. A good low cost board control figure might be interesting in a Suicide Squad build since I don't think they have anyone to move figures around. Plus, I'd draft him in there not just for theme, but because I might get him back later. In the end, is losing this guy going to cost anyone the game?

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by laughing matter

Fair point. I may cut Choke to keep him from being too attack oriented. A good low cost board control figure might be interesting in a Suicide Squad build since I don't think they have anyone to move figures around. Plus, I'd draft him in there not just for theme, but because I might get him back later. In the end, is losing this guy going to cost anyone the game?

I still wouldn't really bother putting him in the Suicide Squad - he still has a 75% chance of betraying you every time you take a turn with him before you do so. Loosing him may not matter, but you're still losing a turn, and really, why just give him to your opponent? If you want him to be viable in something like that, I'd drop his odds of betrayal to around 50/50 - still not great, still a risk, but a risk worth taking if he ain't that good. I honestly don't think choke needs cutting, though - it's 50/50 chance of a wound, you risk wasting your attack going for it, and he needs to be in melee (where he'll die soon anyway). What may be thematic and tone it down, though, is restrict it to non superstrength figures? I'm hard pressed to imagine a normal human choking Superman, Thor, Hulk or Galactus.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I still wouldn't really bother putting him in the Suicide Squad - he still has a 75% chance of betraying you every time you take a turn with him before you do so. Loosing him may not matter, but you're still losing a turn, and really, why just give him to your opponent?

His odds of betrayal need to be a lot lower than 50/50 before he starts being worth taking in a Suicide Squad build (or any other OM hub build), at any point cost.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Ronin

His odds of betrayal need to be a lot lower than 50/50 before he starts being worth taking in a Suicide Squad build (or any other OM hub build), at any point cost.

Yeah, I'd be inclined to agree. Still, I like the idea of the betrayal mechanic encouraging taking him with the Suicide Squad over other hub armies, since in that build at least you wouldn't be giving him to your opponent - it almost feels like a soft synergy in some sick, twisted way, but it still needs to be seriously dialed back for him to be worth taking.

[laughing matter]

I dialed back the roll a bit.

[Lazy Orang]

That looks a lot better - it'll still drop his cost a lot, though, but I guess that's part of the idea.

Any thoughts on the whole Choke/Superstrength thing?

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Putting this here, as I feel the C3G could use a more Kingpinny Kingpin:

NAME = KINGPIN
SECRET IDENTITY = WILSON FISK

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CRIME LORD
PERSONALITY = MANIPULATIVE
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 220

CRIMINAL FRAME-UP
At the start of the game, you may choose any Crime Fighter, Vigilante, or Lawman unique hero. For this game the chosen hero's class is Criminal, regardless of what is listed on their card.

KINGPIN OF CRIME
If if at least one of your Order Markers for a round is placed on Kingpin, and:

• All of your other order markers are placed on Assassin Army Cards, then all Assassins you control add 1 to their attack for the rest of the round
• All of your other order markers are placed on Criminal Army Cards, then all Criminals you control add 1 to their defense for the rest of the round
• All of your other order markers are placed on Thief Army Cards, then all Thieves you control add 2 to their move for the rest of the round
• There is one of your Order Markers on a Assassin Army Card, a Criminal Army Card, and a Thief Army Card, then all Assassins, Thieves and Criminals add 1 to their move, attack and defense for the rest of the round.