The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

You make a good point about the free turn no matter what. In testing I mostly used combinations of Outlaws, and occasionally mixed other things in, but I never actually played Jedidiah as the only Outlaw by himself. I was aware of the possibility, but I didn't really think about it (outside of Ornak builds) as I was focused on the Outlaw Leader angle.

When I saw the design I didn't even really think "Outlaw leader," I thought, "unit that takes free turns." The fact that it can be other Outlaws is nice, too, but I wasn't thinking of trying to use that, just get free turns.

The idea to change to require a numbered order marker on an Outlaw would be a good change, if you want to steer away from just a unit with free turns. That cements him as an Outlaw leader. Sure, he can still fill in on his own, but would require using up numbered order markers, which wouldn't be all that good in most armies.

[Leaf_It]

He's decent on his own I think. You effectively get to attack twice with him, if you give him order marker 3.

[Captain Stupendous]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

I have discussed it with Pumpkin King and have decided to make the following changes.
- Underhanded changed to Ruthless, Which is what Garett Burns has.
- Outlaw Ambush now requires an order marker to be revealed on an outlaw hero during the round. This still allows Jedidiah to work when he's alone, but you don't get a 4th order marker for free outside of an Outlaw army.

For what it's worth, I really like this draft. Nice work, @Leaf_It and @Pumpkin_King !

Only suggestion would be to reword Outlaw Ambush to read "At the end of the round, if there is at least one revealed order marker on an Outlaw hero you control, you may reveal..."

This doesn't particularly bother me, but I could potentially see some issues with Outlaw Ambush being mechanically different from Shadow Ambush and Lurking Ambush. I liked the previous name "Ace in the Hole"; another potential alternative could be "Oldest Trick in the Book".

[Leaf_It]

Thank you.

Wording will get fixed later on. Just making sure it's mechanically sound, and understandable right now.

I also like the poker references but that was a sticking point the last time this design was posted in here, so I went with the generic name instead. I borrowed the naming convention from Drow Ambush on the Drow Assassin that's currently in SoV. The abilities are similar.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

He's decent on his own I think. You effectively get to attack twice with him, if you give him order marker 3.

It's still an extra turn, so he's not terrible, but it's a delayed extra turn, which is touchy for a 2-Defense figure.

[UtahScott]

@Leaf_It , Both Special Powers are X Order Marker Based. Could both of these be activated on the same turn? Either way, you'd want clarification added to Black Bullet, since it could only happen once per game.

[Captain Stupendous]

Originally Posted by UtahScott

@Leaf_It , Both Special Powers are X Order Marker Based. Could both of these be activated on the same turn? Either way, you'd want clarification added to Black Bullet, since it could only happen once per game.

It seems pretty clear to me that you can't activate them both on the same turn, since Black Bullet requires you to reveal the X before rolling attack dice, and Ambush requires you to reveal the X before taking a turn with the Outlaw.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

It seems pretty clear to me that you can't activate them both on the same turn, since Black Bullet requires you to reveal the X before rolling attack dice, and Ambush requires you to reveal the X before taking a turn with the Outlaw.

Captain Stupendous is right. You are not supposed to be able to use them both in the same round. If you reveal the X for black Bullet, then you cannot reveal it for Outlaw Ambush. If you reveal the X for Outlaw Ambush, then you cannot reveal it for Black Bullet. It might need an R&C just so that new player don't jump to conclusions, but if you look at the requirements and think about what you have available, I think it's pretty clear that you can't do both in the same turn/round.

[UtahScott]

I need to not post while sleep-deprived...

[Captain Stupendous]

Originally Posted by UtahScott

I need to not post while sleep-deprived...

Also @UtahScott

Today, 05:33 AM

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

Captain Stupendous is right. You are not supposed to be able to use them both in the same round. If you reveal the X for black Bullet, then you cannot reveal it for Outlaw Ambush. If you reveal the X for Outlaw Ambush, then you cannot reveal it for Black Bullet. It might need an R&C just so that new player don't jump to conclusions, but if you look at the requirements and think about what you have available, I think it's pretty clear that you can't do both in the same turn/round.

I don't really think that added complication is necessary. Just let him use Black Bullet once per game and be done with it. Allowing him to take a Black Bullet turn and the bonus X turn isn't going to break games.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I don't really think that added complication is necessary. Just let him use Black Bullet once per game and be done with it. Allowing him to take a Black Bullet turn and the bonus X turn isn't going to break games.

Is it really that complicated? It's exclusive because you don't have an X to reveal if you've used one of them already. I liked that it was a decision you had to think about. Do I want to use Black bullet this round, or get an extra turn this round?