OEAO's Legacy Power Rankings

[Lazy Orang]

I remember once playing a RtW 'reinforcements' tourney with my army (some of your army was left in reserve as reinforcements, can't recall the exact rules). When I played my army of Charos, Greenscales and 10th Foot, I didn't even need my Redcoat reinforcements - Charos and the Greenscales (which is a pop group, as my Mum would say...) wrecked everything.

[Matthias Maccabeus]

So what will it take to get my chainfighters to an A+?

I mean one attack per turn is basically unstoppable. I don’t understand all these noobs playing squads and getting multiple attacks per turn....rookies.

[OEAO]

Originally Posted by Matthias Maccabeus

So what will it take to get my chainfighters to an A+?

I mean one attack per turn is basically unstoppable. I don’t understand all these noobs playing squads and getting multiple attacks per turn....rookies.

I bumped them to B, what more do you want from me? Why don't you try winning an event for once? You're more washed up than DragonRuler.

[Matthias Maccabeus]

Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne

I bumped them to B, what more do you want from me? Why don't you try winning an event for once? You're more washed up than DragonRuler.

4 time, that’s right 4 time dragon dice WORLD champion....
Not sure you can win more than that.

[Dysole]

I'll just comment on the movers. Let's start debates.

Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne

S
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-ROTV (80, A+) eh I guess since she makes everything better, but I don't think she's game warping enough for a separate tier

A+
Marcu Esenwein (20, A-) Pretty much the go to option if you have 20 points left but at the same time "curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal". I don't think wannok does enough for a letter grade upgrade
Marro Warriors (50, A) Easily one of the best units in the game and in non timed games, can beat many units they shouldn't on stats alone. I would rather give them to an opponent than Q but after that, no way. Do have some bad matchups. Not quite sure they're an A+ but I'll buy it

A
10th Regiment of Foot (75*, A-)4th are still better. :P
Me-Burq-Sa (50, A-) Was legitimately surprised was not an A unit
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider (50, A-)Orc Raelin is boss
Nilfheim (185, A-) See MBS

A-
Blade Gruts (40*, B) Eh... I think they're more B+ since they have to work a lot harder to crack a sturdy defense.
Eltahale (140, B+)See MBS and Nilf
Mezzodemon Warmongers (65*, B+) Even a single special attack can wreck them, but they are brutal if you don't have one
Ogre Pulverizer (100+, B+) I don't think the Chasers do enough for bonding option 3
Roman Legionnaires (50*, B+)See the marro, dragon, and Goliath

B+
Arrow Gruts (40*, B) Have not played with them enough but always seem to come highly recommended
Ashigaru Harquebus (60*, B-) One of my faves. Make your own 4th. Add Raelin. Wait. Then fire.
Atlaga (90, A-)
Concan the Kyrie Warrior (80, B) I probably wouldn't bring either Kyrie to an event but I'd probably bring Atlaga before Concan because range and 7 move Raelin.
Eldgrim the Viking Champion (30, A-) This guy is an amazing early glyph grabber. Should be put back where he was.
Fire Elemental (35*, A-) Mostly because we can't all be dok and have 18 of them right? 4/4 with auto wound? I don't follow this one.
Frost Giant of Morh (140+, C+) Not a C+, but I think just a B instead of a B+. 140 is a lot of points.
MacDirk Warriors (80*, C+)2 defense is brutal and I think that keeps them in B/B- territory
Marro Dividers (50*, A-) Still love running these against zombies. Will induce frustration. A little surprised they weren't already here.
Minions of Utgar (110*, A-) I never like facing minions because they can be devastating. Conversely, they can annoyingly whiff on two dice a lot.
Nakita Agents (120, B) They're good tech, but I thought they were fine at B
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-SOTM (120, B) I dunno. Unless I'm doing bring 2 swarm Rae tends to be hard for me to justify.
Sentinels of Jandar (110*, A-) I actually think they're worse than minions because more powers bypass defense.
Sgt. Drake Alexander-SOTM (170, A-) You are a dude. This is a man. Nuff said.
Sonya Esenwein (45, A-) Huh. Yeah point totals do tend to make her less of an auto include.
Swog Rider (25*, B)
Tarn Viking Warriors (50, C+) Why do I keep getting surprised by units not where I thought they were already?
Warriors of Ashra (50*, B) Range vulnerability but again already thought they were here


B
Capuan Gladiators (70*, B+) I always worry about how few of these guys I have to play. This feels right.
Crixus (90, B+) I feel like he's a very cheap very hard to kill beat stick. Definitely take him over several heroes you have ahead
Drow Chainfighter (25*, B-) Agreed. Unit responsible for the most disappointing 8 of my life.
Fyorlag Spiders (40*, C+) I don't see it with no Quahon available
Kozuke Samurai (100, B-) Did not realize how fun this unit was until last Gencon. Agreed.
Laglor (110, A) 7 range, SA, makes krav better, what am I missing?
Ornak (100, B-) So many units in places I thought they were
Othkurik the Black Dragon (140, B+) Yeah, nice tech but nothing special
Otonashi (10, C+) Really hard to compare to Isamu. Like a lot more for RtW
Sgt. Drake Alexander-ROTV (110, B+) Brutal against some armies but I agree with this
Sir Denrick (100, B-) Eh feels fairly mediocre to me.
Sir Hawthorne (90, B+) Dude is cheap and has a special attack. Feel like this is better than Denrick
Sonlen (160, B-)
Spartacus (200, B+)
Thorgrim the Viking Champion (80, B-)
Tornak (100, C+) Screw it. Clearly my life and the rankings are a lie.
Valguard (110, C+) Personally, I feel like this is one of the most underrated units
Warforged Soldiers (80*, B+) They have always performed well for me and can be brutal in some matchups
Wyvern (100+, B-) I don't see it. Bond with an okay squad and their positioning power is okay and they don't have high survivability.

B-
James Murphy (75, B)
 I guess although he's better than shotgun
Shurrak (160, B)
Siege (120, B) I love the fire giant and enjoy the warforged but yeah
Wolves of Badru (80*, C+) 3 defense and points make it hard for me to agree

C+
Mind Flayer Mastermind (100+, C) Agree. Still mad at the fire isles game I got no enslaves.


C
Templar Cavalry (120*, C-) They're really vulnerable to range. I don't see it.
Warden 816 (90, C-) I guess. I actually feel he's at least C+

C-
Sudema (140, C) NOOOO my favorite unit. I do agree though (also she's not deleted from the C's)

D
Roman Archers (55*, C-) I actually think Roman archers and Raelin is better than you give it credit for. They're not good against squads but 6 range attack of 6 will end heroes. Biggest weakness is the engagement clause.

~Dysole, who didn't check to see if she'd change anyone you didn't move

[Cleon]

I was actually going to share my own rankings pretty soon haha, you beat me to it, i think it's a good idea to share personal rankings. . I'll post them soon, im almost done ranking and tinkering everything.

One thing that perplexes me about yours is Laglor. What's the reasoning for him so low? I think he's damn good, I put him at an A (maybe A- if the map pool really sucks for him).

I like how you bump MW to A+ I agree

[OEAO]

Originally Posted by Cleon

I was actually going to share my own rankings pretty soon haha, you beat me to it, i think it's a good idea to share personal rankings. . I'll post them soon, im almost done ranking and tinkering everything.

One thing that perplexes me about yours is Laglor. What's the reasoning for him so low? I think he's damn good, I put him at an A (maybe A- if the map pool really sucks for him).

I like how you bump MW to A+ I agree

Laglor is... cute. His aura is good, but he's a single attack per turn hero with a bad special at 110 points. That's expensive.

The reason Atlaga and Concan are higher than him is that they fill in a nice point slot where there aren't a whole to of other options, especially if you only have room for one or two more figures. Once you hit 100, the options really start to open up.

He's also a "win more" figure, so to speak. He doesn't help a Vydar range army's bad matchups; instead, he makes their good matchups (marginally) better, as well as the mirror.

Finally, he hasn't won anything noteworthy in years (Team Tourney doesn't count). If he's an A, why does nobody play him? Win a few events with him at GC and I'll bump him up . I value results over everything.

Laglor is, at best, a weak B+. I see him more as a middling-B.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne

(Team Tourney doesn't count).

For good reason! But excluding Team Tourney considerations for Laglor does mean you aren't considering the one format in which he outshines all: his aura (for those of you who don't know already) affects friendly figures, and not just figures you control. So it boosts your allies. Off the top of my head I think it's the only aura like that in the game; I am sure others will correct me if I'm wrong.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne

Laglor is... cute. His aura is good, but he's a single attack per turn hero with a bad special at 110 points. That's expensive.

The reason Atlaga and Concan are higher than him is that they fill in a nice point slot where there aren't a whole to of other options, especially if you only have room for one or two more figures. Once you hit 100, the options really start to open up.

He's also a "win more" figure, so to speak. He doesn't help a Vydar range army's bad matchups; instead, he makes their good matchups (marginally) better, as well as the mirror.

Finally, he hasn't won anything noteworthy in years (Team Tourney doesn't count). If he's an A, why does nobody play him? Win a few events with him at GC and I'll bump him up . I value results over everything.

Laglor is, at best, a weak B+. I see him more as a middling-B.

He makes Krav nuts. Sit in/around your start zone and force your opponent to come to you even harder. Works with Q9 and Q10 as well, and forcing your opponent to come close and componsate position to Q's is nasty. And any combination of the three of course. Works with Trons too, keeps Blasts even farther back and safer. Those are four/five of the best units in the game, and he makes them better. Agent Skahen's a great unit too.

He has a 7 range SA that can hit multiple times. He's a phenominal cleanup figure, which you're very most likely going to have him for. He also has 6 life (w/ 3 def). 110pt. is really not that expensive, it's not like he's Taelord @ 180.

He also works with Microcorp and Nakitas, which aren't bad units at all.

I don't see him being any lower than an A-. Also just because he's underplayed is a lame argument to push him down, I think Mohicans are underplayed but it doesn't make them any worse at what they are (~B+). Trons are almost always underplayed, but they're no question top tier.

I'm lost at what's 'average' about this figure, Laglor's really good haha

[OEAO]

Originally Posted by Dysole

I'll just comment on the movers. Let's start debates.

~Dysole, who didn't check to see if she'd change anyone you didn't move

A lot here. Not going to have the time right now but I will get to the points of contention! Thanks for all the input, it's great!

[OEAO]

Let's unpack this.

Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-ROTV (80, A+) eh I guess since she makes everything better, but I don't think she's game warping enough for a separate tier
She is the single most cost-efficient unit in the game. At 120, she'd still be an A+ unit. Q9 or Rats with that kind of cost increase would drop to A.

A+
Marcu Esenwein (20, A-) Pretty much the go to option if you have 20 points left but at the same time "curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal". I don't think wannok does enough for a letter grade upgrade
Dropped back down to A, an elite A for sure.

Marro Warriors (50, A) Easily one of the best units in the game and in non timed games, can beat many units they shouldn't on stats alone. I would rather give them to an opponent than Q but after that, no way. Do have some bad matchups. Not quite sure they're an A+ but I'll buy it
MWs are very efficient for 50. Their stats are nuts. Sure, they have bad matchups, but they're only 50 points, and well worth it. The other 2 great 50 point options are also very army-dependent on when they are As. All-around, best 50 point filler in the game.

A
10th Regiment of Foot (75*, A-)4th are still better. :P
Yes, but not a grade better.

A-
Blade Gruts (40*, B) Eh... I think they're more B+ since they have to work a lot harder to crack a sturdy defense.
True, poor matchups against Q9 and Nilf/Greens keep them in check, but if you told me I had to win a tourney without a Tier 1 army, they're what I'd take. Surprisingly good matchup vs Stingers and able to beat anything else (other than Nilf and Q9).

Mezzodemon Warmongers (65*, B+) Even a single special attack can wreck them, but they are brutal if you don't have one
A- specifically as a tech of 1x or 2x. Anymore and they drop down to B+.

Ogre Pulverizer (100+, B+) I don't think the Chasers do enough for bonding option 3
Low A- for sure, but I think he's efficient enough to warrant the bump.

B+
Atlaga (90, A-)
Concan the Kyrie Warrior (80, B) I probably wouldn't bring either Kyrie to an event but I'd probably bring Atlaga before Concan because range and 7 move Raelin.
Concan continues to impress me with his incredible stats and PK boost.

Eldgrim the Viking Champion (30, A-) This guy is an amazing early glyph grabber. Should be put back where he was.
Agreed.

Fire Elemental (35*, A-) Mostly because we can't all be dok and have 18 of them right? 4/4 with auto wound? I don't follow this one.
Absolutely horrible vs range. Good melee can beat them. Solid units though, keeping them at a mid-high B+.

Frost Giant of Morh (140+, C+) Not a C+, but I think just a B instead of a B+. 140 is a lot of points.
True, but his effect on opponents is staggering. Can-openers are nice.

MacDirk Warriors (80*, C+)2 defense is brutal and I think that keeps them in B/B- territory
Raelin is a must.

Minions of Utgar (110*, A-) I never like facing minions because they can be devastating. Conversely, they can annoyingly whiff on two dice a lot.
Too pricey.

Nakita Agents (120, B) They're good tech, but I thought they were fine at B
Agreed.

Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-SOTM (120, B) I dunno. Unless I'm doing bring 2 swarm Rae tends to be hard for me to justify.
Will be devoting a whole post just on Raelin SOTM. Spoiler: I now think she is quite bad.

Sentinels of Jandar (110*, A-) I actually think they're worse than minions because more powers bypass defense.
Definitely, but I'm not sure they're as bad as Protectors.

Sgt. Drake Alexander-SOTM (170, A-) You are a dude. This is a man. Nuff said.
He's ok. 1 attack per turn at that price range is meh. 15 more and you have Nilf.

Sonya Esenwein (45, A-) Huh. Yeah point totals do tend to make her less of an auto include.
I don't think you should ever run her with Cyprien. Cyprien is good at 150, not so good at 195.

Swog Rider (25*, B)
Tarn Viking Warriors (50, C+) Why do I keep getting surprised by units not where I thought they were already?
Tarn are still underrated by some.

Warriors of Ashra (50*, B) Range vulnerability but again already thought they were here
Dropped back down.

B
Crixus (90, B+) I feel like he's a very cheap very hard to kill beat stick. Definitely take him over several heroes you have ahead
Perhaps he's a B+, but I'm not sure I see it.

Fyorlag Spiders (40*, C+)[/COLOR] I don't see it with no Quahon available
Bonding is good. Move is the most underrated stat in the game.

Kozuke Samurai (100, B-) Did not realize how fun this unit was until last Gencon. Agreed.
3x5s with an 8 move threat range? Yes please.

Laglor (110, A) 7 range, SA, makes krav better, what am I missing?
Not worth the points.

Sir Denrick (100, B-) Eh feels fairly mediocre to me.
There's worse ways to spend points. Knights are good.

Sir Hawthorne (90, B+) Dude is cheap and has a special attack. Feel like this is better than Denrick
Dude has Stab in the Back.

Warforged Soldiers (80*, B+) They have always performed well for me and can be brutal in some matchups
Very vulnerable to range.

Wyvern (100+, B-) I don't see it. Bond with an okay squad and their positioning power is okay and they don't have high survivability.
See spiders, move is good. 4/4 with 4 life at 100 is pretty efficient coupled with 7 move flying.

B-
James Murphy (75, B)
 I guess although he's better than shotgun
I'd say they're pretty even.

Wolves of Badru (80*, C+) 3 defense and points make it hard for me to agree
specifically at 1 squad for poor man's Kozuke.

C+
Mind Flayer Mastermind (100+, C) Agree. Still mad at the fire isles game I got no enslaves.

C
Templar Cavalry (120*, C-) They're really vulnerable to range. I don't see it.
Move is good. 5 dice at 8 move on a common is worth a C to me.
Warden 816 (90, C-) I guess. I actually feel he's at least C+
Eh, a little fragile.

D
Roman Archers (55*, C-) I actually think Roman archers and Raelin is better than you give it credit for. They're not good against squads but 6 range attack of 6 will end heroes. Biggest weakness is the engagement clause.
Squads are pretty prevalent. Definitely scary for heroes. Perhaps worth the C-.

[Dysole]

Some quick hits.

I think we disagree on how we're defining A+, which is why Raelin gets sorted into an S class for you and not for me.

I still feel your overestimating blades and spiders, but I follow your logic. I also think having some units get bumps for "tech purposes" in x1, x2 but having lower value in higher numbers feels odd to me. Can't place why yet.

I think there's a couple units we disagree more on but I'll just focus on the two we brought to main. I guess maybe you can help me understand why boosting PKs is valuable for a melee unit that needs OMs. PKs thrive on mobility so a cheerleader that requires adjacency doesn't feel like a big boost.

Templar was a meta call that worked fine, but I think I definitely got some breaks to make what happened happen. They are really vulnerable to range even with Raelin and the high cost makes it hard.

~Dysole, who forgot to pop in periodically and razz you for not responding to her