Israeli-Gaza Conflict

[Nukatha]

Here's a political issue that warrants discussion, who's right and who's wrong?

What are your views on the fight that is going on on the east side of the Mediterranean?

Personally I believe that Israel is entirely in the right for retaliating against Gaza. The had to take action, and with their opponent striking first, they cannot be blamed for causing the fight.

[CheddarLimbo]

It turns my stomach to think that people even need to discuss this. There can be no realistic comparison of the two parties involved here. One is a sovereign nation attempting to defend its citizens from attack, the other is a group of cowardly terrorist dogs that use women and children and human shields.

How anyone (much less most of the world) can think that Israel is in the wrong for striking back is baffling to me.

[J4Jandar]

Originally Posted by CheddarLimbo

It turns my stomach to think that people even need to discuss this. There can be no realistic comparison of the two parties involved here. One is a sovereign nation attempting to defend its citizens from attack, the other is a group of cowardly terrorist dogs that use women and children and human shields.

How anyone (much less most of the world) can think that Israel is in the wrong for striking back is baffling to me.

You get no argument here either. When peace on earth is discussed or more absurdly, American crulety towards terrorists who strip our soldiers bare naked and drag their lifeless bodies through the streets while others hit them with sticks, I shake my head and fume. These people have been fighting since the dawn of time. To think because we had some envolvement in the area recently, causing an uproar is our fault? I can not understand. They just kill each other. That is what they do. God supposedly tells the to do it. Who is right? There is only one God from what I have heard. They are just crazy, brains baked in the desert heat.

[django]

Bordom is why they fight you can only sit in dirt for so long,they need Heroscape.

[Einar's puppy]

There is really no good guy in this fight. for one, you have the

a group of cowardly terrorist dogs that use women and children and human shields.

(couldn't put it better myself)

On the other side is the defending nation that is launching back missiles. From this angle, there is a clear good guy. But if you think about it, the Terrorists are mainly former Palestinians who were basically kicked out of their country. The Israeli people came, they saw, and they conquered. I'm not saying how the Palestinians are reacting is right, Terrorism is just wrong, but what I'm saying is there really should have been better diplomacy. They should have either

• Split the nation in half
• Given Israel that little piece of land that Egypt wound up winning (I can't seem to recall it' s name)
• moved Israel to Mexico.

The first one would be to draw a line down the middle, and to make Jerusalem it's own little mini-country. If they start complaining about getting the bad land, just think about how Saudi Arabia feels!
The second would allow Palestinians to keep their land they once had, and give Isreal that piece of Egypt. It's sperate enough from Egypt so that it doesn't seem totally like it's enroaching upon egypt.
The third is more serious than it seems. Move the country to the Mexican desert. Wether is nearly idrentical, and really, who cares where the weeping wall is?

Now, it should also be mentioned that I think Religion is the biggest mistake ever made. Without religion no Holocaust, Crusades, or Inquisition. There are even more horrible events in history fueled by the divining of some god. Now, I sure they would have figured out some excuse to kill each other anyway, but I just don't like it. More harm then good. This is why I don't care if the Israelis could not get near Jerusalem. Most Christian people aren't that close to it either.

[nyys]

Originally Posted by Einar's puppy

If they start complaining about getting the bad land, just think about how Saudi Arabia feels!

Yep, I'm sure they're quite distraut over the billions and billions of barrels of oil they've pulled out of the ground.

[Xray]

I'm no expert on the subject but from what I have read, there is no clear cut bad guy in this conflict.

The people of Palestine were kicked out of their country to make room for the decimated Jews that were left over from WW2.

This of course angered the people of Palestine and the fought back the only way they could.

For reference: just imagine kicking the people out of Texas to make room for refugees from Mexico. How would the average Texan respond? How would you respond? Think about that before you make any more judgments.

A little bit later, Israel took even more land from Palestine and Egypt in order to further isolate the people of Palestine. This in turn continued the slow process of eliminating the Palestinians off the face of the earth.

This of course angered the stubborn people of Palestine so they fought back the only way they could.

In an effort to stabilize the area, negotiations were made and it was decided that the Palestinians should hold an election. The Palestinians democratically elected the Hamas party. Now, you may argue that the Hamas are terrorists but remember, one person's terrorist is another guy's freedom fighter.

This of course angered Israel so they decided to lay a siege on Palestine. For the past year and a half, all food, water, fuel, electricity and medication has been blocked from entering Palestine.

This of course angered the people of Palestine who decided to again "fight back" the only way the can by launching mortar and rocket attacks against the only targets they can reach, nearby civilian cities. The attacks killed 4 civilians and one soldier.

This of course angered Israel.

In response, Israel decided to bomb Palestine back to the stone age (because they were already bombed back to the middle ages in the past) and have killed over 650 people and counting (100:1 ratio).

Some say that the Hamas hide behind children and women but the truth is, Palestine is only like 120 square miles. That is about the 1/3 the size of New York City. It is kind of hard not to have some children and women nearby when so many people are crammed into a small area. Also, Israel has bombed schools, hospitals and houses. Those are places that women and children tend to be present.

If you look at recent history, Israel has not been completely innocent. They have raged war against Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, and Palestine. In short, all of the neighboring countries. Does that sound like a friendly neighbor to you?

It's almost like if you had a neighbor that took all of your backyard to house his relatives so you then you throw a rock on his car because you are mad. He decides to kill you, your wife, your children, your dog, your best friend and all his family. Then he burns your house just for good measure. Well, it is true you shouldn't be throwing rocks and your neighbor has a right to defend himself but is that the correct response to throwing rocks?

One thing I am sure of though, I'm glad I live here and not there.

[Harlax]

Originally Posted by Einar's puppy

Now, it should also be mentioned that I think Religion is the biggest mistake ever made. Without religion no Holocaust, Crusades, or Inquisition. There are even more horrible events in history fueled by the divining of some god. Now, I sure they would have figured out some excuse to kill each other anyway, but I just don't like it. More harm then good. This is why I don't care if the Israelis could not get near Jerusalem. Most Christian people aren't that close to it either.

The root causes of both the Holocaust and Crusades were far more complex than just the religious element.

Some of the really bloody events of recent history had nothing to do with religion. Stalins Gulags or the mass starvation his collectivization program caused. The suffering caused by Mao's "Great Leap Forward" or "Cultural Revolution." Pol Pots "Killing Fields."

[Draconious]

Kick everyone out, this way those in there now were kicked out once too... allow no one to LIVE there... make it a "park" for visiting only...

Or maybe the area is bigger then I get the impresison from on tv?

[Pumpkin_King]

Oh, dear. The age-old argument. Two age-old arguments, actually. Threads like these depress me.

[Einar's puppy]

Originally Posted by Harlax

The root causes of both the Holocaust and Crusades were far more complex than just the religious element.

Some of the really bloody events of recent history had nothing to do with religion. Stalins Gulags or the mass starvation his collectivization program caused. The suffering caused by Mao's "Great Leap Forward" or "Cultural Revolution." Pol Pots "Killing Fields."

I'm not saying all bad things come from Religion. Religion help some people live their lives to the fullest, give others hope, and give others a moral code. I'm saying that the few people (and the people they subsequently brainwash) who kill in the name of their god, or kill others because of their god, or what have you are the bad. I'm pretty confident that if there was no religion, Hitler would have found a different angle to use to kill everyone anyway.

By the way, everyone can now ignore my post and instead read Xray's. He put it much better than I could have ever.

[Agent Minivann]

Originally Posted by Einar's puppy

I'm not saying all bad things come from Religion. Religion help some people live their lives to the fullest, give others hope, and give others a moral code. I'm saying that the few people (and the people they subsequently brainwash) who kill in the name of their god, or kill others because of their god, or what have you are the bad. I'm pretty confident that if there was no religion, Hitler would have found a different angle to use to kill everyone anyway.

By the way, everyone can now ignore my post and instead read Xray's. He put it much better than I could have ever.

Sure if there was no religion there wouldn't be the [insert atrocity here] done in the name of religion/god, but those same elements would still exist in the individuals who perpetrated those acts. If those people actually knew their religion and followed their religion those events would not have taken place. Taking religion out of it to solve the problem just won't work.

EDIT: I know I'm going to get "what about Islam?" replies, but I think even with Islam it is the case.