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#25
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
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#26
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
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Affecting Utgar is fine, imo. It does need to be thematicly implemented however. Not that Anguish would be thematic of course. I'm not a fan of powers with a minimum restriction, it's always been an mathematical pain in the rear. Especially in competitive play when there are 8 people with different versions of the rules. My customs. NE Ohio Tourney - TBA SW Ohio Tourney - NHSD 550 points AotV - Colliding the minis of AotP with the world of HS. |
#27
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
I personally like the idea of mirroring Gothlok and not affecting units of his own general (does he really look like a guy who would have a "weaker" aura than Gothlok?), but this isn't my unit to design so if this group likes the idea, run with it in any direction you want.
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#28
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
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#29
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
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Competitively, it hurts melee armies quite a bit more when he is sufficiently screened. While it can certainly be charged for, it is tricky territory because there will be some builds that are clearly better for this negative aura. I don’t have an issue with it though, I’m just pointing out that its a tricky thing to balance. My customs. NE Ohio Tourney - TBA SW Ohio Tourney - NHSD 550 points AotV - Colliding the minis of AotP with the world of HS. |
#30
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
Are we tied to aura that lowers defense? How about lowering attack instead? Also instead of limiting to Utgar we can make it just affect opponents. This goes with the idea of making this unit the AotP Master Set's version of Raelin (lowering opponent's attack by 1 is almost the same as increasing your defense by 1.5, although statisticians might disagree), is something different than Gothlok, and also goes great thematically with negative spirit.
I'd also wouldn't mind flipping the negative spirit to reduce defense instead of attack as it gives the opponent a choice on whether to keep attack low or lower defense, although either spirit give a tough choice and affects the opponent's strategy of who to attack against and with first. I would think this unit would cost 120 or more even at 3 defense and 5 life. Quote:
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#31
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
Attack-lowering is a viable design space, but a dangerous one. Lowered defense leads to a faster, more violent game. Lowering attack leads to a slower, more tedious game, and can be downright miserable at times. It's something that should be used exceedingly sparingly.
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#32
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
I feel like it's worth pointing out that Gothlok is a Flagbearer, and as such was expected to both use Valkyrie Dice and have some kind of broad synergy for Valkrill (in this case, an exclusion to his penalty aura). Ob Nixilus looks very much like an Utgar figure, but I don't think they need to mirror each other if they go down a similar direction.
Having played around with an "Attack -1" aura on Masha Shingai, I would encourage treading carefully if going down that route. I ended up deciding to not only limit it to Common Squad figures, but also letting it impact your own units and require a revealed Order Marker on his card to be active. An unrestrained, non-penalizing, and always active version of the power would be considerably more powerful. Proud Member of Platyfly!
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#33
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
While I don’t mind reusing powers and concepts, I feel like reusing a version of Gothlok’s aura would cheapen both designs. This unit would certainly be different enough from Gothlok, but that aura is still the centerpiece of his design and it would feel a little odd to me to repeat it elsewhere. Plus, keeping the total number of stat lowering auras in the game to a minimum is probably a good idea simply to avoid unpleasant interactions with stacking them as much as possible.
I still prefer this guy’s aura to be anti-defensive in some way for largely the reasons Scytale mentioned—whenever possible I prefer to design units that encourage fast offensive games, not slow defensive ones. If we don’t want to do the defensive re-roll (although I don’t personally feel it would slow down the game all that much) we could consider other options. Here’s an idea that popped into my head: Aura of Frailty Whenever an opponent’s figure within 4 clear sigh spaces of (figure name) rolls defense dice, if they roll exactly the same amount of shields as the attacker rolled skulls, the defending figure receives a wound. Demon Curse Spirit When (figure name) is destroyed, you may place this figure on any Unique Army Card. (Figure name’s) curse spirit subtracts 2 from the defense value on that card. |
#34
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
[QUOTE=All Your Pie;2292581]While I don’t mind reusing powers and concepts, I feel like reusing a version of Gothlok’s aura would cheapen both designs. This unit would certainly be different enough from Gothlok, but that aura is still the centerpiece of his design and it would feel a little odd to me to repeat it elsewhere. Plus, keeping the total number of stat lowering auras in the game to a minimum is probably a good idea simply to avoid unpleasant interactions with stacking them as much as possible.
I still prefer this guy’s aura to be anti-defensive in some way for largely the reasons Scytale mentioned—whenever possible I prefer to design units that encourage fast offensive games, not slow defensive ones. If we don’t want to do the defensive re-roll (although I don’t personally feel it would slow down the game all that much) we could consider other options. Here’s an idea that popped into my head: Aura of Frailty Whenever an opponent’s figure within 4 clear sigh spaces of (figure name) rolls defense dice, if they roll exactly the same amount of shields as the attacker rolled skulls, the defending figure receives a wound. Range 5? for aura? |
#35
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
Small details like aura range can be tweaked as necessary as we move forward depending on what testing tells us. You may be right in that it's always going to be harder to keep enemy units in an aura than it is to keep your own in one, so a range expansion could compensate. The power as written is very strong though, and expanding the range would only make it stronger.
More than details like that, and this is true for every design in this pod, I'm interested in the directions people would like for these units based on the listed options. I think we've suggested plenty of ideas at this point, we just need to choose the best ones to move forward with. So far the aura/spirit combination seems pretty well supported here, so it's a matter of picking which version of those powers we want. The kyrie/demon distinction is a little less clearly defined, and I think we should decide on that as well since it could have synergy implications--I don't think we want to design a Kyrie Darklord for instance, as Darklord just isn't a class Kyrie have. I'm pretty much ambivalent on that part of the design--Demon is obvious and doesn't require leaps, but the figure also looks very Kyrie and the tail can be explained away as some sort of curse or affliction. Not that he's a good example, but it would be less of a leap than Marcu being a vampire. |
#36
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Design
I personally like the idea of him being a hybrid: half Demon half Kyrie. A negative spirit for defense is better if the aura is also defense based. I still prefer the defense re-roll aura because it adds something new and exciting to heroscape. I like the fact the power could work for or against you which adds to the hybrid theme. Also making him a darklord opens up some interesting synergy with the wolves with there pounce ability.
Long live heroscape |
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