The Book of Nakita Agents

[greygnarl]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

"It's a game, not a simulation." You are right, YK; it's not thematic. But in terms of the mechanics, the flier is triggering flight and thus breaking engagement, but the thrown figure is being (a) removed and (b) placed, and there is no point in between at which the Nakita is unengaged, so no Engagement Strike. That's how I read the issue, though your accusation that this is not thematic is 100% correct.

Which is why you can play it thematically in home games if you so choose.

[Dad_Scaper]

Absolutely! It's your game, your house, your rules. I completely agree.

I will say that with many of the rules - Order Markers, the Master Rules, engagement, and so on - giving in to temptation and ignoring them will likely also reduce your enjoyment of the game. Not so with this one, though. Play this one however you want.

That said, I think () there is no engagement strike.

[The B.I.V.]

I agree with Lyrgard...for the record...

[Simval]

I like how we've come to an agreement ! This is a really interesting discussion, but there are no official ruling (part of why it's so interesting). I like how you keep it civilized and you respect each other's point of view.

Personnaly I agree with Lyrgard for the case of Flying/Stealth Flying/Leap... Also for all the teleportation and underground movement powers. However I think powers like Throw should be in the same group as Flying, but in a strict wording point of view, it's like Spear of Summoning, Water Tunnel, etc.

So both are good, I just prefer theme.

[Lyrgard]

From a purely mecansim point of view, Jotun never "grab" the thrown figure, the THROW power is juste like the KNOCKBACK power of Shurrak, it just places an opponent figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Jotun.
from the FAQ :
The leaving engagement attack occurs as soon as you declare that the figure is moving onto a space that is no longer adjacent. Remember, adjacency is checked only on spaces, not the area in between spaces.
Saying that the figure breaks engagement because Jotun grabed it is trying to check adjacency between spaces, something this FAQ explicitly said one shouldn't do.

From a thematic point of view, my guts says to me that the THROW should break engagement. Well, at least if the figure it was engaged to is small, like a Nakita agent. But... What if the thrown figure was engaged to Braxas, who is of height 13 ? Would Jotun grab the figure high enough to break engagement ? Or perhaps he toss it behind his shoulder before throwing to gather force ?
My guts also say to me that a flying figure shouldn't be able to move vertically any distance in juste one move. Or that if a figure falls from super height, the fact that there is water where it lands shouldn't matter, that the EA shouldn't be able to drop exactly where they want and be immediatly ready to take a turn, and so on.
That being said, one obviously can do whatever he want with the rules as long as all the opponent aggree

And don't forget something that IS in the rules : if you and your opponent can't reach an aggreement on a point, just throw the 20 sided dice !

Thanks for all that stated they aggree with my reasoning. I'm happy to see we found something that the majority can aggree with, and based on FAQ so we can rationnally explain why we think it should behave like this.

For the record, it is all thanks to "This", a member of the French forum, that made me see this reasoning.

[Scytale]

I'm on board with this interpretation, but with one big sticking point. The Flying/etc exception is based partly on the "when the unit starts to fly" wording. I agree with that, but then shouldn't all powers that use the "starts to" wording fall under the same category? (* indiacates does not take LEA.)

"starts to" wording powers:
Flying
Grapple Arm
Shadow Dance
Stealth Flying*
Stealth Leap*
Stealth Leap X*
Super Leap
Swamp Water Tunnel
Swing Line X*
Teleportation*
Thunder Step*
Underground Movement
Water Tunnel

other:
Barge into Battle*
Chain Grab*
Elven Summoning Spell*
Fey Step*
Grapple Gun X
Knockback X*
Scurry*
Spear of Summoning*
Tactical Switch*
Talon Grab*
Teleport Reinforcements*
Throw*

no LEA language:
Disappearing Ninja
Fire and Rush Special Attack
Gain High Ground
Glacier Traverse
Gladiatron Movement Bonding
Gorillinator Movement Bonding
Hyper Speed X
Jandar's Dispatch
Ninjutsu Barrage Special Attack
Scatter
Vanish

[dok]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I'm on board with this interpretation, but with one big sticking point. The Flying/etc exception is based partly on the "when the unit starts to fly" wording. I agree with that, but then shouldn't all powers that use the "starts to" wording fall under the same category? (* indiacates does not take LEA.)

IMO, no. The "starts to [use power]" language is, as you note, pretty common and sort of generic. To me, what matters is this more distinctive language:

[Unit] may [move] over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and [move] over obstacles such as ruins.

It's that language that, IMO, clearly implies that you are moving from space to space while ignoring engagement mechanics. So that's the language that invokes the Flying FAQ ruling.

Originally Posted by Scytale

no LEA language:
Disappearing Ninja
Fire and Rush Special Attack
Gain High Ground
Glacier Traverse
Gladiatron Movement Bonding
Gorillinator Movement Bonding
Hyper Speed X
Jandar's Dispatch
Ninjutsu Barrage Special Attack
Scatter
Vanish

With the notable (and previously noted) exception of Glacier Traverse, all the powers in the this category there use standard movement (or flying in the case of Silver Surfer), so there's no ambiguity about when engagements begin or end (give or take the slightly absurd question about whether a ninja that moves through a Nakita re-engages on the other side).

Given that we actually have a ruling on Glacier Traverse and LEAs, I think the most reasonable assumption is that Glacier Traverse works essentially the same way as Underground Movement does with respect to engagement rules, and the lack of a reference to LEAs was just an oversight.

[Serenity]

Nakita Agents
C3V and SoV Custom Synergies

Spoiler Alert!

Synergy Benefits Offered

Synergy Benefits Received

EBON ARMOR : ANIMATED MATERIEL & ETERNAL WAR
As a Unique Human, a destroyed Ebon Armor you control may be placed on Nakita Agents' Army Card to replace a Nakita Agent upon his own destruction.

ELARIA THE PALE : QUEEN OF THIEVES
As a Tricky figure, Nakita Agents may benefit from Elaria the Pale's 20-sided die enhancement.

[Mr. Phats]

I hate to necro an old thread, but this is bothering me.

I'm not sure I understand the Hasbro FAQ ruling for Smoke Powder 13. The wording towards the end of Smoke Powder 13 says "for the duration of the targeting figure's turn", which would imply that particular attacking miniature, right?

SMOKE POWDER 13 : Defending Against a Squad
Does the smoke powder block Line of Sight for an entire squad that attacks the Nakita Agents, or just 1 figure from that squad? What happens if the Agents do not roll for Smoke powder on the first attack from a squad? When the next figure from that squad targets them, do they get to roll again?
The Nakita Agent's card says "For the duration of the targeting figure's turn" (I interpret that as saying this particular miniature). When a squad takes a turn (squad as in group of miniatures), they move together, and then they attack together (But you don't attack with them all at once: you attack with them one at a time). That attacking figure's/squad's turn isn't over until all figures from that squad have attacked (The "figure's/squad's" wording confuses me; wouldn't these two things be mutually exclusive?). In other words, as soon as a Nakita Agent rolls for Smoke Powder against a squad figure and is successful, it takes effect for the rest of the turn for that squad (How?). [...]

It seems like the Hasbro FAQ interprets an individual figure among a squad's turn and the whole squad's turn collectively to be one in the same, but that doesn't make any sense in the context of other cards. For example, when using Braxas's Poisonous Acid Breath, you don't destroy an entire squad when you destroy a squad figure; why wouldn't the same logic apply here? I'm not saying we should ignore the Hasbro ruling, but the Hasbro FAQ's justification for the ruling doesn't add up with what the wording for Smoke Powder says.

[Yodaking]

Because of how squads work in which all members of the squad move up, then all figures of the squad attack, all figures of the squad are taking their individual turns at the same time (a hero turn includes both moving and attacking). Thus even though you are choosing targets and rolling dice one at a time, for game play purposes all those events are occurring during one figure turn.

[The_X_Marker]

Originally Posted by Mr. Phats

I hate to necro an old thread, but this is bothering me.

The books are Necro-proof, they're made to be posted in over the entirety of this site.

Originally Posted by Mr. Phats

But you don't attack with them all at once: you attack with them one at a time).

The intent is that the entire squad activates simultaneously, as if it were one model spread over X amount of figures, it's impossible to actually do so. A squad taking a turn encompasses all of the figures on the card. So, if you have 4 4th Mass, all 4 activate on the same turn and end their turn at the same time.

It's the same as if the power said "For the duration of your opponent's current Order Marker, the Nakita Agents have no hit zone.

[Mr. Phats]

Originally Posted by The_X_Marker

The books are Necro-proof, they're made to be posted in over the entirety of this site.

The intent is that the entire squad activates simultaneously, as if it were one model spread over X amount of figures, it's impossible to actually do so. A squad taking a turn encompasses all of the figures on the card. So, if you have 4 4th Mass, all 4 activate on the same turn and end their turn at the same time.

It's the same as if the power said "For the duration of your opponent's current Order Marker, the Nakita Agents have no hit zone.

Ah, okay. If that's the case, the ruling makes a lot more sense.