The Definitive List of Weapons in Heroscape

[Billtog]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

AS Q0's guns are a part of him.

Crap, that's a good point...

I guess since it wasn't originally part of Ne-Gok-Sa, it could count as a sword. But that doesn't fix the soulborg guns dilemma.

I thought shuriken just referred to any sort of throwing weapon. Wikipedia seems to point in that direction (and the fact that I've heard so many different things referred to as shuriken), but if anyone can find a more reliable source, that would be nice.

Edit-
Could we maybe make a distinction between things that we would normally consider to already be part of an animal- claws, teeth, scales, etc.- and things that were either attached later (Ne-Gok-Sa's sword), or require moving parts to be used (guns)? I think that might do it.

Originally Posted by southwest ninja

actually those are not shuriken for the millionth time. the longer shurikens are more spike like. now i need to go dig through literature and find some pics to scan.....

really shuriken are the stars that you throw
kunia are knives but dont need to be thrown they can be melee or ranged

[The B.I.V.]

The Grok Riders Spinalwhip Skullbludgeons need to be added to the list....

Brandon

[DeadEye]

Originally Posted by The B.I.V.

The Grok Riders Spinalwhip Skullbludgeons need to be added to the list....

Brandon

good point......but I don't know what they should be called....
but Spinalwhip Skullbludgeons does kinda roll off the tounge

DeadEye

[The B.I.V.]

It's better than "morningskulls." Now that I look at the list, it doesn't look like it's been updated with the wave 8 units at all. The 10th could be listed under muskets and spears. The elf wizards have staves...Kato, Dupuis, Emiroon and the two ninja chicks have swords.

Brandon

[DeadEye]

Originally Posted by The B.I.V.

It's better than "morningskulls." Now that I look at the list, it doesn't look like it's been updated with the wave 8 units at all. The 10th could be listed under muskets and spears. The elf wizards have staves...Kato, Dupuis, Emiroon and the two ninja chicks have swords.

Brandon

good catch dude...
and the Wolves with.....teeth...(that need to be brushed )
and Chardris and Jordawn with fire also....

DeadEye

[Sup3rS0n1c]

I think we may need to add tomahawks to this list.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by Nobody, Ever

Somebody please necro this thread.

Okay, I'm on it.

Seriously though, I would like to revive this list and complete it with all the missing units. I don't know whether @Mooseman is still available (it looks like it's been about a year and a half since he logged in), but I want to thank him for getting this effort going all those years ago.

Recently I wanted this kind of weapons detail for a project, and thus needed to compile everything onward from about Wave 8 myself. In doing so, I found of course that things get more complicated the more units you add. I'm putting everything into a database format that will make it easier to spit out a new list as new units come along and as corrections/changes are made to the weapon classifications, the grouping rules, the formatting conventions, etc. (In my next post I'll render an example with the data I currently have.)

Part of my real-world job is finding ways to organize and present complex information clearly as well as concisely. The process of turning the weapons list into a small database and figuring out how to auto-format it has confronted me with a number of questions and opportunities, some of which I'd like to list here for discussion.

Weapon-type clarifications — Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan and Guilty McCreech are listed with Pistols, but their guns are actually Revolvers. (These terms are mutually exclusive.) Similarly, the 4th Mass is listed under Rifles, but they carry Muskets. I've updated these in my database, but these differences do seem to beg the following question:

How specific should the classifications be? — Pistols & revolvers could be merged as "Handguns," and rifles & muskets could be merged as something like "Long Guns." Personally I find it more interesting to keep the distinctions, as long as they don't get too specific. (For example, I wouldn't see any point in calling out Deadeye Dan's weapon separately as an "Enhanced Rifle," since that's diving down into specific theme rather than just trying to characterize a weapon with reasonable accuracy.)

Themes — On the other hand, I don't see a problem with adding a little thematic detail within the broader classifications, perhaps in parentheses. For example, there are at least three units that carry Grenades, and it makes sense to me to list them in this way:

Grenades — 12th Caucasus Rifles (gas grenade), Airborne Elite, Jarek Guy (plasma grenade)

That seems to group things in a more useful way than having three separate categories with just one unit each, separated in the overall list by their different alphabetizations. Similarly, it probably makes sense to group a few other weapons into common categories while listing the theme information (from special abilities, bio, etc.) in parentheses:

Energy Weapons — Honor Guard of the Blasted Lands (arc lance), Marro Warriors (plasma blaster), Marro Drudge (pistol w/fleshy veins), Marro Stingers (fire lightning living creature), Me-Burq-Sa (plasma blaster)

Mixed squads — Speaking of parentheses, I like how Mooseman listed the number of squad members that wield each weapon, but I think this notation is needed only in the cases where the weapons wielded are mixed within the squad. When no annotation is provided, this would obviously mean the entire squad has the listed weapon. Some good examples are in the Swords category, so for this example instead of listing every sword in the game I'll just pick a bunch of classic Squads:

Swords — Izumi Samurai, Tarn Viking Warriors (3/4), Blade Gruts, Roman Legionnaires (2/4), Knights of Weston (3/4), MacDirk Warriors (2/4), Gladiatrons (2/4), Sacred Band, Tagawa Samurai, Kozuke Samurai, Ninjas of the Northern Wind, Warriors of Ashra (2/3), The Einar Imperium, Tagawa Samurai Archers, Capuan Gladiators (2/3)

Color-coding — Since my database is doing most of the formatting and layout work, I might as well have it show the publisher of each unit (Hasbro, WotC, C3V, SoV).

Bows — Arrow Gruts, Aubrien Archers, Brandis Skyhunter, Grimnak, Hrognak (mounted), Hrognak (unmounted), Kaemon Awa, Locksley, Millerson, Nottingham Brigand, Roman Archers, Swaysil, Syvarris, Tagawa Samurai Archers, Tomb Skeleton Archers, Van Nessing

Melee vs. Range — This is going to be a tricky distinction to maintain, since there are weapons that are not exclusively one or the other. For example, Spears. Initially I was using Spear for melee pointysticks and Javelin for ranged pointysticks, and this does work out pretty well (although I then have to call the spear on one of the Mezzodemons a "javelin," which feels a little weird). But then you get to things like Daggers, where many of the figures wielding them have Range 1 and no ranged specials, but others like Elaria are clearly throwing those daggers. Similarly, a Trident obviously must be thrown by the ranged Mezzodemon Warmonger, but these weapons more commonly are limited to melee (Retiarius, Sahuagin Raider, Azurite Warlord). And, you may have noticed in my Energy Weapons example above that Arc Lances are melee while the Marro weapons are ranged.

Another case involves Axes. At first I thought I could use "Axe" for melee and "Tomahawk" for range, but Brave Arrow has no range and thus makes this unworkable. From a thematic/cultural standpoint he is clearly carrying a tomahawk, but in this game he never throws it. Furthermore, if in the future there come along, let's say, a new Dwarf that can throw his axe, we certainly wouldn't want to be forced to call that a "Tomahawk."

And then there's the whole mess with Shiori that was already discussed in this thread years ago (and which I will opine on a couple of paragraphs further down). So all of this led me to ask myself, do we really need to distinguish between melee and ranged weapons? I think the answer is no, because in most cases the weapon name answers this for us anyway (we all know that halberds are for melee and pistols are for range), and in the cases where it doesn't answer this for us, often that's because the weapon can be swung or thrown. So I'm inclined to just delete the two master headings, alphabetize all the weapon names, and not worry about whether the game uses them for range 1 or range 2+. (After all, we aren't worrying about which weapons are multi-shot, or area-effect, or special-attack, or....)

Implied weapons — Some weapons do not appear in the sculpt, but are implied by a special power, the bio, or an obvious expectation from the figure's theme. Examples include all four Airborne Elite throwing grenades even though only two of the sculpts have one in hand, Heirloom's Orb appearing in his special powers, and Cal the Smuggler having some kind of revolver or perhaps alien pistol under his poncho (I just don't know what it is, since I didn't read the Martian Manhunter comics as a kid). And as another example...

Shiori — I've read all the comments in this thread on Shiori, researched a bit on shurikens and ninja daggers, and thought about the existence of other implied weapons in the game. Thus I'm forced to conclude that Shiori is holding in her hands a pair of some kind of throwing daggers — most likely Kunai — and that she also has a generous supply of Shurikens hidden under her clothing. This is consistent with how ninjas are often depicted in media, and recognizes that the implements in her hands look exactly like the pop-culture kunai shown on Wikipedia. This may or may not make weapons buffs and/or ninja buffs happy, but it seems a pretty likely interpretation of the designers' intent.

No body parts — I agree with others that it's not a good idea to list weapons that are part of the figure's body. Yes, we all realize that the "weapon" of the Shaolin is his fist, but this seems like an unmanageable rabbit hole with little reasonable hope of standardization. Many martial-arts practitioners use their entire bodies to fight, so do we have to list fists, elbows, foreheads, feet, ankles, and so on? Do we want the list bloated with endless creature-specific "weapons" like teeth, stingers, hooves, horns, antlers, spikes, mandibles...? I certainly don't. So in my current draft, I've adopted a general rule of thumb that a "weapon" is something you can set down and pick back up again. The raptorian claws carried by Venocs? Yes. The slaggy metallic club fused onto Ne-Gok-Sa's arm? No. (I realize this creates some issues for the Soulborgs, and indeed you'll see this open wound reflected in my sample output in the next post. I'm still pondering this issue.)

Edge cases — But, because there are some cases that feel weird or disappointing to leave out, in my database I've got a few categories listed under a heading of Honorable Mentions. I feel like this is a reasonable way to catalog the most obvious or likely edge cases, such as the Armocs and VW, without feeling obligated to list, say, the toenails of all the humans who might have ninja- or monk-like skills and happen to be barefoot, or wearing open-toed sandals.

No non-weapons — I also agree with those who said that weapons which aren't really weapons should not be included. This means that Drake's grappling tech doesn't belong on the main list, but I feel like it could qualify for the Honorable Mentions. (You can check that out at the end of my rough first draft, in the next post.)

Alrighty then, tear my logic apart. Let's make this thing make as much sense as we can, given the data we have to work with.

[Just_a_Bill]

Okay, here's the current working version. This is not complete and has some internal inconsistencies (several of which involve Soulborgs). I'm still playing around with some of the categorization rules, and I've just barely started tagging a few of the figures whose weapons I've not categorized yet (in fact, there's a weird little collection of construction debris under Honorable Mentions at the moment). But this should serve to at least show the layout I'm proposing, and perhaps offers some context for thinking about some of the discussion issues listed above. For the time being, I'm still using a high-level Melee vs. Range separation, even though it breaks down for certain weapon types.

Legend: Hasbro, WotC, C3V, SoV

Melee Weapons

Bladed Weapons

• Axes — Asterios, The Axegrinders of Burning Forge, Bahadur, Brave Arrow, Brute Gruts (1/4), Dreadgul Raiders (1/3), Eldgrim the Viking Champion, Executioner 616, Frost Giant of Morh, Gladiatrons (2/4), Greenscale Warriors (1/3), Grimnak, Horned Skull Brutes (2/3), Knights of Blackgaard (1/4), MacDirk Warriors (2/4), Minions of Utgar, Mok, Pel the Hill Giant, Rhogar Dragonspine, Shieldsmiths of Granite Keep (2/3), Torin, Ulfrid Hornwrangler, Uzog (pickaxe -- or is it?), Van Nessing, Warden 816 (evisceraxe), Warriors of Ashra (1/3)
  
  
• Bayonets — 10th Regiment of Foot
  
  
• Cleavers — Asterios, Krug
  
  
• Daggers — Beakface Sneaks, Durgeth Ravagers (1/3), Elaria the Pale ?, Estivara, Isamu, Kantono Daishi, Martial La Hire, Mika Connour, Myrddin, Nicholas Esenwein, Pelloth, Quorik Warwitch, Sharwin Wildborn, Shiori, Sir Dupuis, Tomoe Gozen
  
  
• Raptorian Talons — Elite Onyx Vipers, Venoc Vipers
  
  
• Scythes — Bramcephys, Major J15, Marutuk (bone?), Varkaanan Quickblades, Varkaanan Swiftfangs
  
  
• Sickles — Khosumet the Darklord
  
  
• Swords — Acolarh, Agent Carr, Akumaken, Alastair MacDirk, Arashara Goshiri, Arthur of Sherwood, Azazel the Kyrie Warrior, Beakface Rogue, Blade Gruts, Bol, Breach, Brunak, Brute Gruts (1/4), Buccaneers of Tortuga, Capuan Gladiators (2/3), Concan the Kyrie Warrior, Cormin the Dark, Count Raymond, Crixus, Cyprien Esenwein, Darrak Ambershard, Death Chasers of Thesk (2/3), Death Knights of Valkrill, Deepwyrm Drow, Dreadgul Raiders (1/3), Ebon Armor, Eilan Sidhe, The Einar Imperium, Elaria the Pale, Eltahale, Emirroon, Empress Kiova, Finn the Viking Champion, Gen. Simon Fraser, Gladiatrons (2/4), Goblin Slashers (3/4), Gothlok, Grimnak, Hatamoto Taro, Iron Golem, Isamu, Iskra Esenwein, Izumi Samurai, Jarek Guy, Jotun, Kaemon Awa, Kato Katsuro, Kha, Knights of Blackgaard (1/4), Knights of Weston (3/4), Kon-Tar-Na, Kozuke Samurai, MacDirk Warriors (2/4), Major X17, Maltis Tez, Manauvi, Marcus Decimus Gallus, Martial La Hire, Marutuk, Morgoloth, Moriko, Ne-Gok-Sa, Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider, Nhah Scirh Cultists, Ninjas of the Northern Wind, Ornak, Otonashi, Parmenio, Phantom Knights, Prince al’Kahora, Red Mantis Blade Dancers, Roman Legionnaires (2/4), Runa, Sacred Band, Sgt. Drake Alexander (RotV), Sgt. Drake Alexander (SotM), Shieldsmiths of Granite Keep (1/3), Shurrak, Siege, Sir Denrick, Sir Gilbert, Sir Hawthorne, Sir Orrick, Skeletons of Annellintia (2/4), Skull Demon, Sonya Esenwein, Spartacus, Sudema, Swog Rider, Syvarris, Taelord the Kyrie Warrior, Tagawa Samurai, Tagawa Samurai Archers, Tandros Kreel, Tarn Viking Warriors (3/4), Thorgrim the Viking Champion, Tomb Skeleton Archers (1/2), Tomb Skeletons (2/3), Tomoe Gozen, Tornak, Urk, Varkaanan Blade Dancers, Varkaanan Darkclaws, Viceron the Blood Knight, Warforged Soldiers (1/3), Warriors of Ashra (2/3), Yi Feng

Ensnaring Weapons

• Chains — Drow Chainfighter, Motley Max
  
  
• Nets — Capuan Gladiators (1/3), Retiarius
  
  
• Whips — James Murphy

Impact Weapons

• Battering Rams — [Ogre Battering Ram] (expected)
  
  
• Clubs — Dzu-Teh, Greenscale Warriors (1/3), Grigor & Rogirg (mace/maul?), Gurei-Oni, Mogrimm Forgehammer, Ogre Pulverizer, Quasatch Hunters, Zombies of Morindan (2/3)
  
  
• Flails — Grok Riders (spinal), Ogre Warhulk
  
  
• Gauntlets — Evar Scarcarver (frost gauntlet?), Tetraites (spiked), Thanos (sorry, my willpower to resist just gave out here)
  
  
• Hammers — Beorn Boltcutter, Brontos, Dreadgul Raiders (1/3), Greenscale Warriors (1/3), Ice Troll Berserker, Knights of Weston (1/4), Migol Ironwill, Mogrimm Forgehammer, Sentinels of Grax (1/2), Sentinels of Jandar, Tetraites, Valguard
  
  
• Maces — Acolytes of Vorganund (is this right?), Brute Gruts (1/4), Bugbear Basher, Death Chasers of Thesk (1/3), Grigor & Rogirg (maul?), Horned Skull Brutes (2/3), Skeletons of Annellintia (2/4)
  
  
• Nunchakus — Isamu
  
  
• Wrenches — Beorn Boltcutter

Pole Weapons

• Bidents — Heirloom, Honor Guard of the Blasted Lands, Sentinels of Grax (1/2)
  
  
• Glaives — Marro Drones
  
  
• Halberds — Grimnak, Heavy Gruts, Skeletons of Annellintia (1/4), Su-Bak-Na, Tor-Kul-Na, Warforged Soldiers (1/3)
  
  
• Lances — Honor Guard of the Blasted Lands (arc lance), Templar Cavalry
  
  
• Spears — Arktos Javelin, Ashigaru Yari, Brute Gruts (1/4), Capuan Gladiators (1/3), Cathar Spearmen, Gurei-Oni, Kelda the Kyrie Warrior, Knights of Blackgaard (2/4), Mind Flayer Mastermind, Raelin the Kyrie Warrior (RotV), Raelin the Kyrie Warrior (SotM), Roman Legionnaires (2/4), Saylind the Kyrie Warrior, Tarn Viking Warriors (1/4), Tomb Skeletons (1/3), Warforged Soldiers (1/3)
  
  
• Staves — Arkmer, Chardris, Chen Tang, Cxurg’gyath, Durgeth Ravagers (2/3), Emirroon, Emperor Andask, Garrett Burns, Haduc, Jorhdawn, Kee-Mo-Shi, Kurrok the Elementalist, Kuthnak, Kyntela Gwyn, Morsbane, Myrddin, Pelloth, Sonlen, Sudema, Talingul, Ulginesh, Xundar, [Captain Salidar] (expected)
  
  
• Tridents — Azurite Warlord, Mezzodemon Warmongers (1/2), Retiarius, Rygarn (? chrono-key), Sahuagin Raider

Ranged Weapons

Firearms

• Cannons — Major J15 (guided cannon), Mok
  
  
• Energy Weapons — Honor Guard of the Blasted Lands (arc lance), Jarek Guy (plasma grenade), Marro Drudge (pistol w/fleshy veins), Marro Stingers (fire lightning living creature), Marro Warriors (plasma blaster), Me-Burq-Sa (plasma blaster)
  
  
• Gatling Guns — Blastatrons, Deathwalker 9000, Gorillinators (1/3), Laglor, Major Q10, Major Q9, Zettian Guards
  
  
• Machineguns — 8th Infantry Pathfinder, Capt. John Varan, Kira Jax, Microcorp Troopers
  
  
• Muskets — 10th Regiment of Foot, 4th Massachusetts Line, Ashigaru Harquebus, Samuel Brown
  
  
• Pistols — Agent Carr, Agent Skahen, Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior, B-11 Resistance Corps (2/4), Calibrax the Kyrie Warrior, Command Courier, Krav Maga Agents, M-43 Resistance Fighters, Major Q10 (machine pisrol), Marro Drudge w/fleshy veins), Nakita Agents, Omnicron Snipers, Protectors of Ullar, Seleena, Sgt. Drake Alexander (SotM), Soontir Van, Tyrian the Kyrie Warrior
  
  
• Revolvers — Cal the Smuggler (or some alien handgun under his poncho?), Garrett Burns, Guilty McCreech, Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan, Josie Whistlestop, Louis "Mad Dog" Malone, Tombstone Gunslinger, [Jonah Hex] (expected)
  
  
• Rifles — 12th Caucasus Rifles, 20th Maine Volunteers, 53rd North Carolina Sharpshooters, Airborne Elite, B-11 Resistance Corps (2/4), Deadeye Dan, Microcorp Agents, Mohican River Tribe, Morgan's Riflemen, Patrick Ferguson, Rendar Fy (battle rifle)
  
  
• Shotguns — James Murphy, Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan
  
  
• Uncategorized Firearms — Cal the Smuggler (there must be a revolver or some alien handgun under his poncho?), Gorillinators (2/3), Omnicron Repulsors, Warden 816, Zaeus (rail gun), Zetacron

Non-Firearms

• Bows — Arrow Gruts, Aubrien Archers, Brandis Skyhunter, Grimnak, Hrognak (mounted), Hrognak (unmounted), Kaemon Awa, Locksley, Millerson, Nottingham Brigand, Roman Archers, Swaysil, Syvarris, Tagawa Samurai Archers, Tomb Skeleton Archers
  
  
• Crossbows — Van Nessing
  
  
• Explosives — Airborne Elite (grenade), Deathcommander Mark 3 (explosive rounds), Deathwalker 8000, Deathwalker 9000, Major Q10 (wrist rocket)
  
  
• Flamethrowers — Vulcanmech Incendiborgs
  
  
• Grenades — 12th Caucasus Rifles (gas grenade), Airborne Elite, Jarek Guy (plasma grenade)
  
  
• Javelins — Achillean Gladiatrix, Arktos, Master of the Hunt, Mezzodemon Warmongers (1/2), Teeth of the Makwa, Varkaanan Greyspears
  
  
• Orbs — Emperor Andask, Heirloom (implied), Quorik Warwitch
  
  
• Shurikens — Shiori

Honorable Mentions

• Claws/Mittens — Armoc Vipers, Venoc Warlord
  
  
• Grapplers — Sgt. Drake Alexander (RotV), Sgt. Drake Alexander (SotM)
  
  
• Handheld Flames — Chardris, Erevan Sunshadow, Jorhdawn
  
  
• Tomahawks — Brave Arrow (non-throwing)
  
  
• Unidentified Weapons — Goblin Cutters, Goblin Slashers (1/4), Kumiko, Lilja, Siiv