Capuan Gladiator Discussion Thread

[RageAngel]

After Wave 9, The MacDirk's and Alistair still hold the most-attack-dice-per-order-marker without bonuses at 38.
(2 attacks of 5, 4 attacks of 7)

However, that is a one-time-per-game achievement. The Glad army gets 18 dice from the start (6Ax1 4Ax3) until they are down to less than a squad.

Still, striking first is as important as striking hard. Glads do both. Knights do neither.

I'd throw in Raelin to fill it out more if needed, since she usually doesn't need an OM, provides a bit more defense, and creates a non-gladiator target for your enemy. As someone once said, Raelin works for Target as she's wearing their logo.

My rule is only 2 squads of commons. Wave 9 is challenging all that.

[killercactus]

I would disagree about Raelin, but after reading the Overrated thread, many people would expect me to.

I don't like RotV Raelin with melee squads, especially this one. She doesn't need Order Markers when she's protecting ranged units, but she does when she has to keep up with melee. In this army, not only do you have to spend markers to move her up, but you lose both Gladiator Inspiration and Initiative Advantage, which are too big to let go of for a round.

The Capuans are Rebellious - they don't work well with others. Kinda strange that Einar summonned them when he values discipline and cohesion. Nonetheless, they are probably the most stand-alone army that Heroscape has yet seen. Even more than the 4th Mass, who at least have some Valiant units to work with, the Gladiators are their own army.

Also, am I the only one who's going to yell this before either myself or my opponent plays the steamroller?

Contenders Readyyyyyyyyy?
Gladiators Readyyyyyyyyy?
<whistle!!>

[Q9 Kid]

I'm not liking them as much as I thought I would, but I'll give them a try

[Junge Roman]

I haven't seen it mentioned, though I'll admit I skipped pages 6 - 10. Flog me.

Why not just take Spartacus, 3x Gladiators, and Raelin (+Isamu). I know you'll have order marker issues, but if you get Raelin positioned in the 1st round, you ought to be okay. It seems like +2 defense and using Sparty on the front lines might be better than coordinating 2 heroes with the squads. Yes, Crixus is great, but at 500 points, I'm not sure I bring him.

[RageAngel]

Originally Posted by Junge Roman

I haven't seen it mentioned, though I'll admit I skipped pages 6 - 10. Flog me.

Why not just take Spartacus, 3x Gladiators, and Raelin (+Isamu). I know you'll have order marker issues, but if you get Raelin positioned in the 1st round, you ought to be okay. It seems like +2 defense and using Sparty on the front lines might be better than coordinating 2 heroes with the squads. Yes, Crixus is great, but at 500 points, I'm not sure I bring him.

But just imagine what Crixus could do if you just used him every turn with reckless abandon!

When he dies, then use Spartacus.

[RageAngel]

We can settle this the way the 4th Mass vs 10th debate always goes:

The Glads are better toe-to-toe vs the Kow. confirms this with playtesting, and I have to admit I see it as I've seen what all melee armies can do - speed and attack are most important.

But the KoW are more flexible.

[MechaBeast]

Gladiators are a melee army. You are most likely fighting a army that doesn't have this issue. Not only are you losing inspiration to move raelin but you are also putting her with in 5-6 spaces of your opponents figures if shes helping the front line. On top of that you are also hand feeding your opponent Sparty, the very figure that makes this army work. (wow, that last sentence felt weird). If anything I'd lose Raelin for more squads or gladiators.

Leave rae rae at home, this is an all gladiator squad.

[TOG]

It's easy enough to settle. A Valhallan Chess Match: GB and Steamroller vs. M&M and the Knights.

I'm more excited that 7 of the 10 new cards are melee units.

[SuperflyTNT]

I dunno, even if the KOWs are not as durable than the Capuans, there's still the extra Gilbert movement, and the fact that 2xKOWs + Gilbert + 4th Mass gives the KOW a chance to hold the line and allow the 4th Mass to snipe the **** out of them, not to mention the 4th mass get 4 shots at it per turn where the Capuan get only 3.

[Kinseth]

Once you start tossing in the Mass 4th, you are not talking about a Knight army.

I dont think the debate is there about the Mass, its about KOW+Gilbert/Alaister vs Glads + Sparty/Crixius

[dok]

Originally Posted by Kinseth

Quality over Quantity my friend. Matching up each unit based on an individual.

Capuans 6 move 4 attack 4 defense vs Knights 4 move 3 attack 4 defense. Clearly the Capuans win there

If you're trying to compare apples to apples, throw in Glibert's boost, too. On average, knights have 6 move, plus they can do all sorts of clever tricks with Jandar's dispatch, like ford rivers or reposition figures that don't need to attack. So the only real difference is 4 attack versus 3 attack, and 3 activations versus 4 activations.

Originally Posted by Kinseth

Crixus vs Alastair, 1 more life for Alastir, and ill take the 1 sheild defense over the Overextend ability. Crixus in a close one.

Spartacus vs Gilbert - Physical Numbers, Spartacus clearly wins there. Special abilities are very similiar, but Spartacus is better in all instances as they dont have any aura ranges. Sparactus here.

I agree the Gladiators have better heroes, toe to toe. If it comes down to the heroes, the Gladiators win, hands down.

Originally Posted by Kinseth

So overall each of the units for the gladiators is better.

So in the end its 18 units for the Knights vs 11 units for the Gladiators, getting the major advantage of going first and having your superior units hitting the enemy first, the Gladiators will wear down the knights and win in the end.

I know the Knights hold a special place in everyones hearts, but sorry to say they aren't as good as the gladiators.

The initiative thing seems overblown to me. Sure, they win initiative in round 1, but unless there are key glyphs I don't see the huge benefit there. Every pro-Gladiator initiative switch is matched by a pro-knight initiative switch. I'm a bit disappointed by that power, honestly.

Yes, the Gladiators are stronger on a per-figure basis. But note that I said not just 16>9, but 4>3. The knights get an extra activation each turn. 4 attacks of 3, on average, will get almost the same number of kills as 3 attacks of 4, against a defense of 4. Look it up!

Given that squad-kill rate will be roughly equal, and the knights have almost twice as many squad figures, the knights are heavily favored to win this fight on flat ground. They should have about 6 knights left after taking out the squaddies, and 6 knights + Gilbert + Alistair should be able to handle Spartacus and Crixus (in that order) without too much trouble.

So, it comes down to the tactical skill of the KoW player. On a map with irregular terrain, if the Gladiator player can direct the fight to a choke point and keep the knights from attacking with their full activation, the Gladiators will usually win. If the fight ends up spread out enough that full activations are used, the knights will usually win.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by dok

So, it comes down to the tactical skill of the KoW player. On a map with irregular terrain, if the Gladiator player can direct the fight to a choke point and keep the knights from attacking with their full activation, the Gladiators will usually win.

Unless some hump-backed, wanna-be Gladiator goes and tells the Knights about a secret passage to get behind the choke point and have them surrounded.

[/300 reference]