Boot Camp of Valhalla: Kobolds of Idona Keep (Reworking)

[DanieLoche]

It's seems like the main problem is their survivability, so even if a defense of 2 looks more thematic, bumping it to 3 could be a very good solution. It can be explained by their small size, it's harder to hit them !

I'll see again for the choosen class, I don't remember which one was chosen. And I'll correct the card if needed.

EDIT : Right, I put the wrong class... Here is the corrected card :

Spoiler Alert!

[Viegon]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

While I agree with the principal of keeping things in the "B" range, I wouldn't write off a price decrease just yet

Oh definitely, I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up dropping their cost eventually; all I meant was, based on that single test, I wouldn't suggest a points decrease (then again, I'd never suggest a cost tweak just based on one game regardless of the results).

Nice tests by the way, Arch; they do seem to be preforming weak but I wouldn't suggest a tweak just yet. I've got these guys up next for my playtesting schedule, so I should have some games posted soon.

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

Originally Posted by Viegon

Oh definitely, I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up dropping their cost eventually; all I meant was, based on that single test, I wouldn't suggest a points decrease (then again, I'd never suggest a cost tweak just based on one game regardless of the results).

Nice tests by the way, Arch; they do seem to be preforming weak but I wouldn't suggest a tweak just yet. I've got these guys up next for my playtesting schedule, so I should have some games posted soon.

It was actually two rather similar games where the kobolds performed similarly and weakly, but it was against the same armies. Not sure if that counts for anything, just wanted to make sure you saw it.

[Lyrgard]

Nice review, guys ! Keep them coming !
It is true that they are really frail. They drop like fleas. You need at least 3 squad to be able to use the full activation, but you need more in fact because you want 3 squad of them when the master has taken wounds, so some could be already dead. But taking 5 squads of them is 250points, and I'm pretty sure one can find more efficient way to spend 250points...

For now, they seem pretty weak to me. I don't have the time to play them right now (other playtests are pending), but I'll be sure to try them.

[Viegon]

Here's some games from me (I may try to get some more later if needed, but I have other things I need to get to).

I really enjoyed playing the Kobolds, they're a very unique unit that's offers some tough decisions, but they play very smoothly. However, they do seem very weak right now. They lost all of my games, most of them pretty badly. I do think dropping their cost to 45 (or even 40 if they continue to prove weak) would help. Alternatively, bumping up their defense would definitely help.

Also, one idea that doesn't exactly make them better but might be cool would be to replace Mob Attack with Flanking from the Tomb Skeletons (we could even think about doing Flanking 2 that subtracts 2 defense). What would be most fun about it would be that it would allow a Kobold to team-up with their Master to flank an enemy instead of relying on other Kobolds, there was a couple times I couldn't quite pull off Mob Attack because the battle was taking place around the Master and I couldn't get enough Kobolds in there, but in those scenarios Flanking would have activated.

Anyways, the games:

ARMY TEST 1
Tentative Fail, the dice were in the Phantom Knight's favor, but the Kobolds were a terrible waste of points this game.

UNIT SUM-UP
Damage: 3 Phantom Knights.
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Warrior's Devotion: Ulfrid is the chosen Master:
1 additional activation for 3 turns.
Mob Attack: Came into affect for 1 total attack.

Map: Immolate by Dignan (Scarab of Invulnerability and Ring of Protection)(T-Glyph Trap: 1 wound)
Units: Army 1: Kobolds x4, Ulfrid, Axegrinders x1, Guilty (400) VS Army 2: Phantom Knights x4, Krug (400)

Spoiler Alert!

Unwounded Krug, 3 Phantom Knights.

QUICK GAME SUMMARY:
Ulfrid and the Axegrinder made an early game strike-team, but the Axegrinder went down almost instantly, while the Phantom Knights just left Ulfrid to attack the Kobolds. The Kobolds got a couple turns with 4 activations, but failed to do much at all. After the Kobolds were mostly gone, Ulfrid attempted to salvage the game, but bad defense dice meant he didn't last long either.

During the First Round: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Ulfrid and Axegrinders advance.
ARMY 2: Phantoms fly out.
ARMY 1: Ulfrid and Axegrinders advance.
ARMY 2: Phantoms kill 3 Axegrinders.
ARMY 1: Ulfrid and Axegrinders kill a Phantom.
ARMY 2: Phantoms kill the last Axegrinder and a Kobold.
LAVA FIELD: Ulfrid takes a wound.

During the Second Round: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: 4 Kobolds kill a Phantom.
ARMY 2: Phantoms kill a Kobold.
ARMY 1: 4 Kobolds fail.
ARMY 2: Phantoms kill a Kobold.
ARMY 1: 4 Kobolds kill a Phantom and 1 dies to a disengagement.
ARMY 2: Phantoms kill 2 Kobolds.
LAVA FIELD: A Kobold dies.

During the Third Round: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Phantoms kill 3 Kobolds.
ARMY 1: 2 Kobolds kill a Phantom.
ARMY 2: Phantoms kill Guilty.
ARMY 1: Turn lost on Guilty.
ARMY 2: Phantoms fail.
ARMY 1: Ulfrid grabs the Scarab.

During the Fourth Round: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Phantoms fail.
ARMY 1: Ulfrid kills a Phantom.
ARMY 2: Phantoms put 2 wounds on Ulfrid (the Scarab is used to block a third wound).
ARMY 1: Ulfrid kills a Phantom.
ARMY 2: Phantoms fail.
ARMY 1: Ulfrid fails.
LAVA FIELD: Ulfrid takes a wound and 2 Phantoms die.

During the Fifth Round: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Krug advances.
ARMY 1: Ulfrid kills a Phantom.
ARMY 2: Krug kills Ulfrid.
ARMY 1: Turn lost on Ulfrid.
ARMY 2: Krug charges.
ARMY 1: Turn lost on Ulfrid.

During the Sixth Round: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Phantoms kill the last 2 Kobolds.

_____________________________________________________________

ARMY TEST 2
Tentative Fail, while the Zombies certainly like facing a low defense melee squad, the Kobolds should have been able to give them a good fight, especially with SotM Raelin backing them up. But as it was, they got demolished by the undead.

UNIT SUM-UP
Damage: 22 Zombies.
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Warrior's Devotion: Raelin is the chosen Master:
4 additional activations for 3 turns.
Mob Attack: Came into affect for 17 total attacks.

Map: Immolate by Dignan (Scarab of Invulnerability and Ring of Protection)(T-Glyph Trap: 1 wound)
Units: Army 1: Kobolds x5, Raelin (SotM), Greater Ice Elemental x1 (500) VS Army 2: Zombies x6, Frost Giant x1 (500)

Spoiler Alert!

9 Zombies and an unwounded/unused Frost Giant.

QUICK GAME SUMMARY:
Raelin zoomed out and grabbed the Ring of Protection first thing. With the Zombies moving up in mass, Raelin decided to go for a height spot where she could hit two Zombies (she killed one of them). Then the Zombies, from even ground and lower, put 3 wounds on Raelin with their normal attacks, only the use of the Ring of Protection kept Raelin from dying. Desperate, Raelin took 3 disengagements to get away and avoided any wounds. Lava Field, however, was less merciful, and she was brought to the brink of death. Initiative favored the undead, and a single Zombie engaged Raelin. Knowing that, without her, the Kobolds stood no chance, Raelin risked yet another disengagement, again avoided damage, to fly to the safety of her base. The Greater Ice Elemental positioned as to protect Raelin from the oncoming horde, and although he did slow them down, his Ice Spikes completely failed him the whole game, and so did his defense dice. With things terribly desperate for both their heroes, the Kobolds rallied and rushed the Zombies. Getting 7 activations per turn, the Kobolds kept up a good kill count, quickly decreasing the number of Zombies. But what they couldn't do was keep the Zombies away from Raelin, as any Kobolds killed while protecting Raelin would rise again as a Zombie right next to her. The Kyrie Warrior was dead and turned into a Zombie by the end of the third round, and the Greater Ice Elemental followed at the end of the fourth. The last of the Kobolds pressed on, but with only 3 activations per turn they really had no hope; for each Zombie they killed a new one took its place the next turn. After seven grueling rounds, the undead stood victorious.

During the First Round: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Zombies shamble out.
ARMY 1: Raelin grabs the Ring.
ARMY 2: More Zombies pour forward.
ARMY 1: Raelin kills a Zombie.
ARMY 2: Zombies put 3 wounds on Raelin (Raelin uses the Ring).
ARMY 1: Raelin dodges a couple disengagements to get away.
LAVA FIELD: Raelin takes a wound.

During the Second Round: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Zombies fail.
ARMY 1: Raelin flees.
ARMY 2: Zombies put 2 wounds on the Greater Ice Elemental.
ARMY 1: GIE kills a Zombie.
ARMY 2: Zombies fail.
ARMY 1: 7 Kobolds kill 2 Zombies.

During the Third Round: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill 2 Kobolds (2 Zombies rise).
ARMY 1: 7 Kobolds kill 3 Zombies.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill 2 Kobolds (2 Zombies rise).
ARMY 1: 7 Kobolds kill 3 Zombies.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill Raelin (1 Zombie rises).
ARMY 1: 3 Kobolds fail.

During the Fourth Round: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: 3 Kobolds kill 1 Zombie.
ARMY 2: Zombies fail.
ARMY 1: 3 Kobolds kill a Zombie.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill a Kobold and put 1 wound on the GIE (1 Zombie rises).
ARMY 1: 3 Kobolds kill 2 Zombies.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill a Kobold and the GIE (1 Zombie rises).

During the Fifth Round: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Kobolds kill 2 Zombies.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill 1 Kobold (1 Zombie rises).
ARMY 1: Kobolds kill a Zombie.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill 2 Kobolds (2 Zombies rise).
ARMY 1: Kobolds kill 2 Zombies.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill 1 Kobold (1 Zombie rises again).

During the Sixth Round: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Kobods kill 2 Zombies.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill 1 Kobold (1 Zombie rises).
ARMY 1: Kobolds fail.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill 1 Kobold (1 Zombie rises).
ARMY 1: Kobolds kill 2 Zombies.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill a Kobold (1 Zombie rises).
LAVA FIELD: a Zombie dies.

During the Seventh Round: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Kobolds kill a Zombie.
ARMY 2: Zombies kill the last 2 Kobolds (2 Zombies rise).

_____________________________________________________________

ARMY TEST 3
Fail, the Kobolds should have been able to handle the Vipers better than this. Concan and his shield preformed as well as could be expected to boost them (though Isamu could have wounded Concan a little more early on) but the Kobolds just didn't have the numbers to take on the Vipers.

UNIT SUM-UP
Damage: 9 Venoc Vipers.
Power Usage/Effectiveness:
Warrior's Devotion: Concan is the chosen Master:
2 additional activations for 4 turns.
Mob Attack: Came into affect for 0 total attacks.

Map: Immolate by Dignan (Scarab of Invulnerability and Ring of Protection)(T-Glyph Trap: 1 wound)
Units: Army 1: Kobolds x4, Concan, Isamu, Sentinels of Jandar x1 (400) VS Army 2: Venoc Vipers x7, Venoc Warlord (400)

Spoiler Alert!

8 Vipers, unwounded Venoc Warlord.

QUICK GAME SUMMARY:
Isamu opened up the game with a wound to Concan to boost up the Kobolds, followed by another wound the next turn (I was hoping for more wounds, but by nature of it this is a very risky strategy). The Vipers and the Kobolds clashed at the end of the first round. Getting 5 activations per turn, the Kobolds seemed to be doing pretty well at first, but even though they were scoring more kills per turn, it quickly became obvious the shear number of Vipers would easily out last them. The only thing that kept the Kobolds in the game was that the Vipers failed to get a single successful Frenzy roll... that is, until the third round, when they got a total of 5 successful Frenzy rolls over three turns, which they used to wipe out the last of the Kobolds, losing their team an entire round worth of OMs. The Sentinels held strong for a couple turns, but they couldn't last for ever. By the fourth round the Sentinels were gone, and Concan was quick to follow. As usual, Isamu put up a good fight, but by that point the game was already lost.

During the First Round: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Isamu puts 1 wounds on Concan.
ARMY 2: Vipers charge.
ARMY 1: Isamu puts 1 wound on Concan.
ARMY 2: Vipers kill a Kobold.
ARMY 1: Kobolds kill a Viper.
ARMY 2: Vipers fail.

During the Second Round: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Kobolds kill 3 Vipers.
ARMY 2: Vipers kill 3 Kobolds.
ARMY 1: Kobolds kill 3 Vipers.
ARMY 2: Vipers kill a Kobold.
ARMY 1: Kobolds kill 2 Vipers.
ARMY 2: Vipers kill 2 Kobolds.

During the Third Round: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Vipers kill 2 Kobolds; FRENZY: Vipers kill another 2 Kobolds; FRENZY: Vipers kill the last Kobold; FRENZY: Vipers fail on Sentinels.
ARMY 1: Turn lost on the Kobolds.
ARMY 2: Vipers kill a Sentinel; FRENZY: Vipers fail.
ARMY 1: Turn lost on the Kobolds.
ARMY 2: Vipers put 1 wound on Concan; FRENZY: Vipers kill the last 2 Sentinels.
ARMY 1: Turn lost on the Kobolds.

During the Fourth Round: Army 1 wins Initiative.
ARMY 1: Concan kills a Viper.
ARMY 2: Vipers put 1 wound on Concan.
ARMY 1: Isamu kills a Viper.
ARMY 2: Vipers kill Concan.
ARMY 1: Isamu kills a Viper.
ARMY 2: Vipers fail; FRENZY: Vipers fail.

During the Fifth Round: Army 2 wins Initiative.
ARMY 2: Vipers fail.
ARMY 1: Isamu kills a Viper.
ARMY 2: Vipers kill Isamu.

I also ran a Jotun and Kobolds x5 VS Death Chasers x5 and Pulverizer x2 game three times, but each time I called the game early because the Death Chasers were able to kill Jotun really, really early before the Kobolds even got a chance to activate. They definitely don't seem to stand a chance against any of the top melee armies.

[Arch-vile]

Nice tests. I agree that a drop to 45 is looking more accurate.

Flanking (or Flanking 2) instead of Mob Attack would be interesting. It's easier to set up than Mob Attack, that's for sure.

[johnny139]

Hmm... a drop to 45 and a switch to Flanking could definitely make for an interesting combination.

[DanieLoche]

I'm pretty sure that without an increased defense to 3, they won't worth it...

I'm not for a too low cost (45 ok, not less..) because it implies that we have to draft a lot of squads to make them viable, and it can be a bad point for "C3V-users" that can't afford a lot of figures. (it discouraged me for the tomb skeletons for example).
And that's a good transition to talk about flanking. I think that's a good idea to.

[johnny139]

Keep in mind that, for those on a budget, you can get TWO SQUADS OF UNPAINTED KOBOLDS for $3.50. At their current point cost, you could get a 400 points worth for the price of a single booster pack back in the day.

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

Hmm, from what shown so far, I'm thinking that these guys will should never be in the army as Raelin (SotM). She costs too much, her aura is barely of any worth with the low defense Kobolds, and I see no tactical advantage of making her their master as opposed to her twin. Do we want a squad that will never use one of their possible synergy choices? (Parmenio is a pretty bad choice for the Legos, but at least he costs less than Marcus)

I'm thinking of doing some army tests with Shurrak soon.

I think a defense boost to 3 could possibly be all needed to justify their 50 points. Just a theory though.

[Arch-vile]

On the contrary, a defense boost is more valuable to units with already low defense. Raelin SotM isn't drafted as often because 95% of the time Raelin RotV outclasses her.

I like the 2 defense on the Kobolds. It forces you to be on the offensive, and you know that a ton of Kobolds will die each round. You just have to make sure they kill just as much.

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

On the contrary, a defense boost is more valuable to units with already low defense. Raelin SotM isn't drafted as often because 95% of the time Raelin RotV outclasses her.

I like the 2 defense on the Kobolds. It forces you to be on the offensive, and you know that a ton of Kobolds will die each round. You just have to make sure they kill just as much.

On the contrary, I never use the first Raelin with faster units that have meh defense. She's much too restricting. These kobolds, I've found, work a bit like the Romans. Stay defensive and swarm the enemy slowly. Especially if you are going up against range. The second Raelin is a much more offensive minded unit, she doesn't seem to work well with these guys. True, Raelin RotV outclasses her, I'm not going denie that, but I can buy a tougher and more useful master always with the 120 points.