Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Tornado

FLEDGLING COUNTERSTRIKE
When rolling defense against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, you may not roll more than 4 dice and all excess shields rolled count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

How about allowing slight bonuses but not big ones?

FLEDGLING COUNTERSTRIKE
When rolling defense against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, you may not roll more than 5 dice and all excess shields rolled count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

[Ixe]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Once again, the engagement strike is just too far away from being anything related to Counterstrike.

Okay, I have an idea!

Fledgeling Counterstrike
After successfully defending against an adjacent, normal attack, if you rolled any excess shields, roll the twenty-sided die. On a roll of 11 or higher, the attacking figure receives an unblockable wound for every excess shield rolled.

Counterstrike, but only working half the time - this will mean that, even with Raelin, there's no guarantee of hurting attackers. Thoughts?

Not a bad idea. The d20 roll is a bit different, but the Black Wyrmling's breath is a bit different as well so I think it may be able to slide. It otherwise feels like a fledgling enough version of the power that should really curb balance concerns.

However, looking back on it, the version that had failed SoV had 3 attack and 5 defense and one of the down votes was because there weren't enough figures available. Has much testing even been done with a single wound or once per turn version of the power with lower defense and a 40 or so price range? dok may be right in that it may be no more anti-melee than a large number of other builds.

While I agree that special defense idea is cool and can open up new design space, I think there may be one too many detractors. New rules are probably not something that would make it through SoV at the very least (presuming that's the goal of this thread).

[Unhinged Manchild]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Once again, the engagement strike is just too far away from being anything related to Counterstrike.

Okay, I have an idea!

Fledgeling Counterstrike
After successfully defending against an adjacent, normal attack, if you rolled any excess shields, roll the twenty-sided die. On a roll of 11 or higher, the attacking figure receives an unblockable wound for every excess shield rolled.

Counterstrike, but only working half the time - this will mean that, even with Raelin, there's no guarantee of hurting attackers. Thoughts?

I think I get your point. For sake of balancing him, I would pass a modified engagement strike power, call it fledgling strike maybe. It would function quite differently from CS, but it's still a defense oriented power. It could certainly still be murder against melee units, but they get murdered by a ton of stuff to begin with. At least with an engagement strike oriented power, green wyrm can't just fly into figures and force them to fight through counterstrike.

I'll have to see if I can use a version of this guy sometime with Andy. I think it would be a fun trial, regardless of who uses him. I'd really love to see this wyrm completed.

We might get a game in toward the end of the month, I'd like to try and record it, too. Is there a popular version of the card that I should try?

[Crixus33]

How about something like this.

Fledgling Counterstrike:
After rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, if the defense dice rolled by a green wyrmling is four dice (or whatever the base defense will be), then all excess shields count as unblockable hits.

Still allows the defense to be lowered by soul weapons, mob attack, etc. and prevents counterstrike from getting the boosts. I actually like this because it feels like the wyrmling is new to its abilities and can only use them when in its base state of defense. Gaining any bonuses or suffering from negative abilities throws its natural instincts off balance. Just some more food for thought.

[Sir Dendrik]

"Once per turn a Green Wyrmling may use Fledgling Counterstrike. [Counterstrike]"

"[counterstrike] All excess wounds inflicted on the attacking figure are inflicted on this Green Wyrmling."

[flameslayer93]

CS is kinda pointless (and unthematic) if you can only use it once per turn, regardless of the number of the wyrmlings. Saying "a green wyrmling" implies that you need to remember which wyrmling has used CS already and which ones have not. Now if the wyrmlings were mentally bound by a single fighting unit...

[betawolf36]

Originally Posted by Sir Dendrik

"[counterstrike] All excess wounds inflicted on the attacking figure are inflicted on this Green Wyrmling."

THIS.

It sounds like an inexperienced wyrmling that accidentally killed itself by counterstriking the enemy. Now both figures are dead.

Though I feel like there must be a better way to word this.
I'll post again after giving the matter some thought.

[betawolf36]

A 4 defense 4 attack wyrmling with
FLEDGLING COUNTERSTRIKE
When rolling defense dice against an adjacent attacking figure, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure. If the attacking figure receives more than enough wounds to be destroyed from Fledgeling Counterstrike, the defending Green Wyrmling is also destroyed.

[Heroscaper Guy]

The problem is, how often will they roll two more shields than the attacker? Aside from Deathreavers or Arrow Gruts. I just don't think that applies a reliable enough way to make them non-op for the SOV to accept them. (Can someone pull up a probabliblity chart which would show the probability of rolling two more shields compared to the attackers skulls?)

[Kinseth]

Why not make it a D20 power?

*if* excess shields are rolled when defending. roll a d20 and if it is higher than 10, the attacking figure takes a wound.

[betawolf36]

Change the defense to 5?

[Dysole]

To borrow from what I think is a C3G power.

FLEDGLING COUNTERSTRIKE

When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, if you roll any excess shields the attacking figure takes one wound.

~Dysole, who can't remember the exact wording