The Pre-SoV Workshop

[quozl]

Originally Posted by Shiftrex

Villian-ish style betrayal usually happens after the job is done... away from a good guys vs bad guys situation unless there is a big motivator or we are doing saturday morning cartoon stuff.

Interesting to see that not everyone considers Heroscape Saturday morning cartoon stuff. I never thought of it in any other way.

[Shiftrex]

Originally Posted by quozl

Interesting to see that not everyone considers Heroscape Saturday morning cartoon stuff. I never thought of it in any other way.

I mean... honestly not all of it has to be mustache twirling silliness. Yes it's light fantasy. Though I know that everyone doesn't want things to be too much of a joke. But if that's not the case, that's fine. I just thought I'd chime in on something that interested me.

[Pumpkin_King]

I don’t like Ambush just being a copy of Clayton because I don’t like him just being “Clayton but Utgar”. I want him to work differently.

I think putting a space requirement on it is completely reasonable. 6-7 CSS.

[ThrasherDarkrai]

I don't have any stake in this, but I'd also dislike a version of Ambush that substantially functions like Clayton's Shootout. Outlaws already work rather differently mechanically from their cowboy counterparts, and I think it makes more sense to try to bridge the gap between Common and Unique Outlaws as Jedidah is trying to do than to homogenize the two factions. Plus, Clayton is a pretty singularly unique figure in the Heroscape context, so part of me would hate to see something as fun and uniquely tailored to the Cowboys as Shootout being reused.

[SkyWhale]

I really like wriggz's idea of making Black Bullet a 3X skulls effect, feels very Utgar to me. Rolling a lot of skulls is cool, but have really effective skulls is also quite fun!

I also think limited range line of sight to the figure taking a turn makes more sense, like what Scytale suggested. Scytale's version also had the nice benefit of not restricting it to a Unique Hero, which is better done if the X order marker is on Jedidiah. To me, this makes it seem more like he is doing the commanding as opposed to revealing an order marker on another Hero as if they are receiving a command.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

With reference to Jedidiah Mulroney:

"The intended theme was to make an Outlaw leader." ~ Leaf_It

OUTLAW INTIMIDATION
When an Outlaw you control that is within 6 clear sight spaces of Jedidiah Mulroney rolls attack dice for a normal attack, you may add 3 attack dice to its roll. If you do, and do not inflict a wound, inflict a wound on the attacking figure.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

That said, I don't really mind leaving the X on Jedidiah, it just seems like the safer way to design it, and typically the safer way is less interesting, requires less commitment, and less decision making.

If you were making a Human Champion or a defense-boosting cheerleader, I would recommend the safer route. This is a leader for the Outlaws, who are far from meta-defining.

I don't think the safer means "less interesting" in this case. It certainly requires less commitment and less decision-making, but that isn't always a bad thing. Having to put the 'X' on the right Hero is not just trying to plan for a distant game state, it's also a sizeable gamble given the general squishiness of the Outlaws. The outcome here is that most of the time the player will opt for a safe pick: putting the 'X' on the unit most likely to still be alive. You pretty much need to limit it to Unique Heroes to avoid the safety of the Commons, even though thematically it doesn't make sense that he wouldn't order a lackey to do the work. I really don't think the forced early choice is actually interesting in this case; it's mere guesswork that causes you to lose a turn if you fail, a very unfun punishment.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

With reference to the below, there are many films in which the villain threatens his henchmen to make them fight. See the denouement of the movie Key Largo, where Rocco sends his henchmen up out of the cabin of their boat. The first one is killed, and Rocco shoots the second when he refuses to go.

With reference to Jedidiah Mulroney:

"The intended theme was to make an Outlaw leader." ~ Leaf_It

OUTLAW INTIMIDATION
When an Outlaw you control that is within 6 clear sight spaces of Jedidiah Mulroney rolls attack dice for a normal attack, you may add 3 attack dice to its roll. If you do, and do not inflict a wound, inflict a wound on the attacking figure.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

First day of testing went well on Monday (see post #1907 in the Gang thread). Submitting these for workshopping:

Human Female Barbarian
Pathfinder Icons of the Realms

RIEKA THE WOLF
General: Aquilla
Human, Unique Hero, Fighter, Ferocious, Medium 5
Life 5, Move 5, Range 4, Attack 4, Defense 4

DOUBLE ATTACK
When Rieka the Wolf attacks, she may attack one additional time.

GOING FOR THE THROAT
If Rieka the Wolf wounds an adjacent opponent's figure with her first attack, and attacks that figure again, that figure rolls 2 fewer defense dice.

CORNERED
If Rieka the Wolf is the last remaining figure in your army, add 1 to her Attack and Defense.

POINTS: 115

Valeros, Human Fighter
Pathfinder's Iconic Heroes Evolved

RAVENWOLF
General: Einar
Human, Unique Hero, Rogue, Disciplined, Medium 5
Life 5, Move 5, Range 7, Attack 4, Defense 4

RAVENWOLF
General: Einar
Human, Unique Hero, Rogue, Disciplined, Medium 5
Life 5, Move 5, Range 7, Attack 4, Defense 4

DISGRACED WARLORD
If there is at least 1 Warlord in your army and 1 is destroyed, Ravenwolf becomes a Warlord, in addition to his current Class.

BASH AND SLASH
If Ravenwolf attacks an adjacent figure he was not adjacent to at the start of his turn, add 7 to his roll in Master at Arms and he may attack that figure 1 additional time.

MASTER AT ARMS
When Ravenwolf rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, roll a 20-sided die. On a roll of 15 or higher, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled. When Ravenwolf rolls attack dice, roll a 20-sided die. On a roll of 15 or higher, add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled.

POINTS: 115

[Scytale]

Single heroes don't have much of a chance with VC these days.

Rieka outclasses Kaemon Awa in multiple ways. That's not a good thing.

Ravenwolf has more potential in VC as a synergistic figure, but he's pretty clearly OP. Range 7 Attack 4 on a Roman-bonding-possible hero is nuts, even if his Lifense sucked, which is very much does not.

[Shiftrex]

rieka being flat out better than Kaemon is quite a high mark. 2 shots at 4 attack with 4 range before height with potential to go higher and also has a vendetta against adjacent heroes.

Ravenwolf seems a bit too strong as well with all he has going on, automatic symbols on top of good stats looks really hard to deal with. Curious on how any games involving him and Roman's went. Unsure he would actually ever die lol.

[quozl]

For Reika, I recommend lowering Attack to 2 and Defense to 3 and dropping Cornered.

For Ravenwolf, I recommend lowering Range to 5 and Attack to 3 and dropping Master At Arms.